Hello dear experts,
We are planning to start building with an architectural firm around April. The trades will be tendered and contracted separately. However, since I have already done some research and obtained quotes myself, I am now a bit confused.
According to the cost calculation from the architect, all windows including roller shutters (12 floor-to-ceiling, 4 regular) and the front door including delivery and installation should cost just under 38k.
Here is an excerpt:
Window door elements as planned, delivered and installed according to RAL standards*
Base material: plastic.
CE marked, wind load resistance: Class C4, air permeability: 4,
Thermal transmittance coefficient: max. 0.98 W/m²K,
Watertightness against driving rain: E900, version: basic security,
Interior color: white, exterior color: white, glass: 4-14-4-14-4,
Ug max. 0.6 W/m²K, g-value 51%, sound insulation Rw 32 dB,
Light transmittance 72%, tilt-and-turn,
Including misuse lock, window handle Mawex white, glazing bead style: standard,
Spacer bar: TGI, white, left glazing bead: 6.5 mm (0.26 inches), right glazing bead: 6.5 mm (0.26 inches),
Frame drainage: forward* Exte Expert XT roller shutter box,
Box height: 220 mm (8.7 inches), inspection flap: bottom,
Shutter type: plastic, shutter color: white,
Drive F1: motor, cable length: 3000 mm (9.8 feet), RF
Guide rail: plaster rail inside: aluminum angle,
Extension with XPS insulation up to raw masonry.
Plaster rail outside: aluminum angle, extension with XPS up to raw masonry.
Oximo RTS radio motor* External window sills:
Padang white, 200 mm (7.9 inches) projection, polished,
Including rainwater grooves bottom longitudinal and top crosswise 2x,
Including EPDM foil / sealing for parapet or base profile*
Window elements as planned, delivered and installed according to RAL standards*
Base material: plastic*
CE marked, wind load resistance: Class C4, air permeability: 4,
Thermal transmittance coefficient: max. 0.98 W/m²K,
Watertightness against driving rain: E900, version: basic security,
Interior color: white, exterior color: white, glass: 4-14-4-14-4,
Ug max. 0.6 W/m²K, g-value 51%, sound insulation Rw 32 dB,
Light transmittance 72%, tilt-and-turn,
Including misuse lock, window handle Mawex white, glazing bead style: standard,
Spacer bar: TGI, white, left glazing bead: 6.5 mm (0.26 inches), right glazing bead: 6.5 mm (0.26 inches),
Frame drainage: forward* Exte Expert XT roller shutter box,
Box height: 220 mm (8.7 inches), inspection flap: bottom,
Shutter type: plastic, shutter color: white,
Drive F1: motor, cable length: 3000 mm (9.8 feet), RF
Guide rail: plaster rail inside: aluminum angle,
Extension with XPS insulation up to raw masonry.
Plaster rail outside: aluminum angle, extension with XPS up to raw masonry.
Oximo RTS radio motor* External window sills:
Padang white, 200 mm (7.9 inches) projection, polished,
Including rainwater grooves bottom longitudinal and top crosswise 2x,
Including EPDM foil / sealing for parapet or base profile* Internal window sills:
Jura marble 250 mm (10 inches)*
Now I have obtained 2 offers that are very close in price, around 23k including front door and installation. Which of course I don’t complain about. These even have RC1 security rating, are lockable, anthracite on the outside, and the roller shutters are made of aluminum.
Here is an excerpt from one of the quotes:
Item 1: PVC WINDOW 2 LEAF TILT/SLIDE
Outer dimensions: 1370 x 2125 mm (54 x 84 inches)
Quantity Price Value
10 x =
630.67
Discount 25.0%
473.00 4730.00
Technology: REHAU - SYNEGO®
Color: INSIDE: WHITE, outside: ANTHRACITE
Glass: U0.6S 4-16-4-14-4 WARM EDGE
Seal: BLACK
Frame: 72.MD (2.3)
Sash: Z59
Fittings: WINKHAUS ACTIV RC1
Window sill connection: +30 mm (1.2 inches)
Window handle: LOCKABLE
Window handle color: WHITE
Hinge color: WHITE
Locking system: RC1N configuration
Item 2: ROLLER SHUTTER BOX FOR ITEM 1
Outer dimensions: 1370 x 2345 mm (54 x 92 inches)
Quantity Price Value
10 x =
442.84
Discount 25.0%
332.13 3321.30
Technology: TP2000K
BOX PVC WHITE
BOX HEIGHT: 220 MM (8.7 inches)
BOX PREPARED FOR PLASTER WORK
GUIDES: ANTHRACITE
ROLLER SHUTTER CURTAIN: Aluminum PA39 ANTHRACITE
ELECTRIC DRIVE PORTOS WITHOUT
PRESSURE SWITCH
I have not yet talked to the architect, but a price difference of 15k just for the windows is quite significant—in a positive way.
Was it similar for you?
We are planning to start building with an architectural firm around April. The trades will be tendered and contracted separately. However, since I have already done some research and obtained quotes myself, I am now a bit confused.
According to the cost calculation from the architect, all windows including roller shutters (12 floor-to-ceiling, 4 regular) and the front door including delivery and installation should cost just under 38k.
Here is an excerpt:
Window door elements as planned, delivered and installed according to RAL standards*
Base material: plastic.
CE marked, wind load resistance: Class C4, air permeability: 4,
Thermal transmittance coefficient: max. 0.98 W/m²K,
Watertightness against driving rain: E900, version: basic security,
Interior color: white, exterior color: white, glass: 4-14-4-14-4,
Ug max. 0.6 W/m²K, g-value 51%, sound insulation Rw 32 dB,
Light transmittance 72%, tilt-and-turn,
Including misuse lock, window handle Mawex white, glazing bead style: standard,
Spacer bar: TGI, white, left glazing bead: 6.5 mm (0.26 inches), right glazing bead: 6.5 mm (0.26 inches),
Frame drainage: forward* Exte Expert XT roller shutter box,
Box height: 220 mm (8.7 inches), inspection flap: bottom,
Shutter type: plastic, shutter color: white,
Drive F1: motor, cable length: 3000 mm (9.8 feet), RF
Guide rail: plaster rail inside: aluminum angle,
Extension with XPS insulation up to raw masonry.
Plaster rail outside: aluminum angle, extension with XPS up to raw masonry.
Oximo RTS radio motor* External window sills:
Padang white, 200 mm (7.9 inches) projection, polished,
Including rainwater grooves bottom longitudinal and top crosswise 2x,
Including EPDM foil / sealing for parapet or base profile*
Window elements as planned, delivered and installed according to RAL standards*
Base material: plastic*
CE marked, wind load resistance: Class C4, air permeability: 4,
Thermal transmittance coefficient: max. 0.98 W/m²K,
Watertightness against driving rain: E900, version: basic security,
Interior color: white, exterior color: white, glass: 4-14-4-14-4,
Ug max. 0.6 W/m²K, g-value 51%, sound insulation Rw 32 dB,
Light transmittance 72%, tilt-and-turn,
Including misuse lock, window handle Mawex white, glazing bead style: standard,
Spacer bar: TGI, white, left glazing bead: 6.5 mm (0.26 inches), right glazing bead: 6.5 mm (0.26 inches),
Frame drainage: forward* Exte Expert XT roller shutter box,
Box height: 220 mm (8.7 inches), inspection flap: bottom,
Shutter type: plastic, shutter color: white,
Drive F1: motor, cable length: 3000 mm (9.8 feet), RF
Guide rail: plaster rail inside: aluminum angle,
Extension with XPS insulation up to raw masonry.
Plaster rail outside: aluminum angle, extension with XPS up to raw masonry.
Oximo RTS radio motor* External window sills:
Padang white, 200 mm (7.9 inches) projection, polished,
Including rainwater grooves bottom longitudinal and top crosswise 2x,
Including EPDM foil / sealing for parapet or base profile* Internal window sills:
Jura marble 250 mm (10 inches)*
Now I have obtained 2 offers that are very close in price, around 23k including front door and installation. Which of course I don’t complain about. These even have RC1 security rating, are lockable, anthracite on the outside, and the roller shutters are made of aluminum.
Here is an excerpt from one of the quotes:
Item 1: PVC WINDOW 2 LEAF TILT/SLIDE
Outer dimensions: 1370 x 2125 mm (54 x 84 inches)
Quantity Price Value
10 x =
630.67
Discount 25.0%
473.00 4730.00
Technology: REHAU - SYNEGO®
Color: INSIDE: WHITE, outside: ANTHRACITE
Glass: U0.6S 4-16-4-14-4 WARM EDGE
Seal: BLACK
Frame: 72.MD (2.3)
Sash: Z59
Fittings: WINKHAUS ACTIV RC1
Window sill connection: +30 mm (1.2 inches)
Window handle: LOCKABLE
Window handle color: WHITE
Hinge color: WHITE
Locking system: RC1N configuration
Item 2: ROLLER SHUTTER BOX FOR ITEM 1
Outer dimensions: 1370 x 2345 mm (54 x 92 inches)
Quantity Price Value
10 x =
442.84
Discount 25.0%
332.13 3321.30
Technology: TP2000K
BOX PVC WHITE
BOX HEIGHT: 220 MM (8.7 inches)
BOX PREPARED FOR PLASTER WORK
GUIDES: ANTHRACITE
ROLLER SHUTTER CURTAIN: Aluminum PA39 ANTHRACITE
ELECTRIC DRIVE PORTOS WITHOUT
PRESSURE SWITCH
I have not yet talked to the architect, but a price difference of 15k just for the windows is quite significant—in a positive way.
Was it similar for you?
K
Karstenkrass11 Jan 2019 08:48HilfeHilfe schrieb:
Hello,
I see the offer mentions a 25% discount. When I calculate the discount, I come up with a benefit of 7,000 € (7,000 euros). Then your architect also wants to see something and always calculates conservatively. Despite the 25% discount, it is still 5,000 € (5,000 euros) cheaper than the cost estimate.
HilfeHilfe schrieb:
Are all other things included, like installation? Is it a new company or an established one?
I also wonder why you disturb him at work? Don’t you trust him?Yes, both include installation.
I had met both companies once at a construction fair in Berlin and made contacts.
Why disturb him at work? On the contrary, I am supposed to assist in obtaining offers. Why no trust??
Pumbaa schrieb:
You first need to compare whether these are actually windows with the same characteristics regarding sound insulation, thermal insulation, etc.They probably have a Ug value of 0.6 and sound insulation plays a rather minor role where we are building.
Pumbaa schrieb:
Then, for example, I don’t see anything about interior and exterior window sills, which are included in the first offer.That’s true, I just noticed that too. But could that really explain such a price difference?
kbt09 schrieb:
.. and I also don’t see installation mentioned in the second offer.That was just a small excerpt from the offer, which covers 8 pages. On the last page, delivery and installation are also listed in that price.
O
Obstlerbaum11 Jan 2019 09:10Your offer doesn’t sound unrealistic now, but the windows don’t have great thermal transmittance values. Nearly 1 W/m²K as an overall value despite warm edge spacers is rather uncommon. Personally, I would also consider upgrading to RC2.
H
HilfeHilfe11 Jan 2019 09:51Karstenkrass schrieb:
Even with the 25% discount, it’s still $5,000 cheaper than the cost estimate.
Yes, both include installation.
I once met both companies at a building exhibition in Berlin and established contacts.
Why interfere with the work? On the contrary, I’m supposed to be involved in obtaining quotes. Why no trust?
They probably have a U-value of 0.6, and sound insulation is rather a minor concern where we are building.
That’s right, I just noticed that too, but could the price difference really be because of that?
That was only a small excerpt from the quote, which covers 8 pages. On the last page, delivery and installation are also included in the price.Okay, that sounds good.
I have no idea if you can / should / are allowed to interfere with the architect.
But I guess it won’t be a good cooperation.
What will you do if your window supplier is supposed to do it, you insist on it, and they need to work on their scope but have no time? The delays, etc.?
If you’re asking because you’d like to borrow a bit less if costs turn out to be consistently or often lower: stick with the figures from the architect’s estimate. The money will be spent anyway—usually more easily than you expect. ;-)
And otherwise, just be happy if it ends up being cheaper!
The only thing I wonder about is: did you request quotes with a detailed scope of work, or were they more informal? Also, does your architect plan to include, in the final contracts, clauses such as completion deadlines or penalties for delays? I could imagine that companies might then submit slightly higher bids. Oh, and one more thing: I would check how long the quotes are valid; you wouldn’t want them only to be valid for 3 months if you don’t need the windows for 5 months.
And otherwise, just be happy if it ends up being cheaper!
The only thing I wonder about is: did you request quotes with a detailed scope of work, or were they more informal? Also, does your architect plan to include, in the final contracts, clauses such as completion deadlines or penalties for delays? I could imagine that companies might then submit slightly higher bids. Oh, and one more thing: I would check how long the quotes are valid; you wouldn’t want them only to be valid for 3 months if you don’t need the windows for 5 months.
I don’t see a price difference in the classic sense here, but rather a comparison of apples and oranges: one is an estimate, the other is a concrete real offer – measuring the difference between them is not reliable.
From the description, the offer seems to be in line with the market, and the estimate appears cautious.
https://www.instagram.com/11antgmxde/
https://www.linkedin.com/company/bauen-jetzt/
From the description, the offer seems to be in line with the market, and the estimate appears cautious.
Karstenkrass schrieb:What kind of nonsense is that? An architect should actually know the difference between a tender and obtaining offers: the difference lies in one having and one lacking a common denominator. This way, you get two dimensions of an apples-and-oranges comparison: one between estimate and offer, and one between offer X and offer Y.
On the contrary, I’m supposed to help with obtaining offers.
https://www.instagram.com/11antgmxde/
https://www.linkedin.com/company/bauen-jetzt/
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