ᐅ Number of floors – second full floor only if it constitutes the attic level

Escroda schrieb:
I just don’t think that knee wall height can be made arbitrarily large.

On the other hand, if not, how is the upper floor supposed to count as a full storey?

For that, it would have to exceed the full storey line. But that probably requires quite a tall knee wall.

Escroda schrieb:
Yes, because the answer to the OP's question

is still owed to us.

By necessity, since I’m not the building department officer.
I have indeed, like you,

Escroda schrieb:
The building type "town villa" is excluded by the development plan because the second storey is not an attic floor. Would it maybe already count as an attic if I simply omit the ceiling to the roof structure, or perhaps start the roof structure at 2.45m (8 feet)?

speculated that a combined full-and-attic storey could arise through such open roof undersides. However, because of the minimum 28° pitch, I dismissed this again, since for me that is firstly an upper limit for that, and secondly the roof slope suggests that standing height should be possible in the attic.

Therefore, I switched to considering it more likely that there is simply “zero living area” above in terms of the land use regulations. But

Escroda schrieb:
I find this question very interesting and certainly worthy of discussion.

and ideally the OP would obtain an official statement from the responsible authority. Because if we contribute different opinions here, it will probably cause more confusion than clarity. For that, an “official” is needed – “informed parties” (each with different backgrounds and views) are not enough.

Escroda schrieb:
Which argumentation do you mean? I find it interesting how some urban planners make life difficult for builders, architects, and permitting authorities with unrealistic requirements.

By argumentation I mean when different views are presented with equal certainty. And the questioner ends up mostly uncertain :-(

One of the discussants is a surveyor, so at least closely related professionally. Another is a management consultant, who stereotypically tends to have less expertise relative to their confidence—but of course, even that is uncertain. Then more people join in, and the questioner might want to shout: “Enough, enough already!”

Only those who invented this full-roof storey (or full attic storey) definition can really clarify this. They must know what ideas motivated them.

Escroda schrieb:
Why not simply set minimum and maximum eaves and ridge heights?

That would have been, including floor area or building volume limits, the ideally proportional development plan, also from my point of view. This nonsense of also listing catalogues of permitted front garden shrubs (of course within the botanical scope of the local council) is not needed to keep peace in the building area.

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11ant schrieb:
If not, how can the upper floor then be considered a full storey?

It’s quite simple, with dormer windows.
A full storey is defined by its floor area (for example, 2/3 of the ground floor’s area).

11ant schrieb:
That would definitely require a substantial knee wall.

I don’t doubt that. But a 2.45m (8 ft) knee wall with a 2.50m (8 ft 2 in) clear ceiling height would be an attempt to bypass the building code or planning permission restrictions.

11ant schrieb:
Because if we contribute different opinions, it will probably cause more confusion than clarity.

I don’t see it that way, because when people who believe they know say

Escroda schrieb:
I would have this interpretation confirmed by the local city planners, as I am not aware of any definitions of attic or roof floor in laws and regulations.

and no one else comes forward with correct information, this can actually be helpful in preparing for discussions with decision-makers.

11ant schrieb:
And the questioner then mainly gains uncertainty :-(

Or gains confidence that their question is quite justified.

11ant schrieb:
This nonsense

And here we agree! According to the development plan, the OP could build a 27m*10m (89 ft * 33 ft) house on their plot with a 45° gable roof, where the basement—due to the slope—would not count as a full storey but would be habitable,
and the attic with a 13.5m (44 ft 3 in) gable height and Xm knee wall would provide space for four floors. Result: ridge height above street level about 20m (66 ft). Is that urban planning really intended?