Good day!
After more than 20 years, I have recently started noticing a short, low-pitched noise occurring whenever cold water is drawn somewhere in the house. For example, when the washing machine starts running, when flushing the toilet and the cistern is refilled, or simply when quickly opening a tap.
At first, I suspected anything related to water flowing through the basement, such as the utility company’s valves, at least one of which contains a spring, and also the backwash filter, which also includes a spring. It must be something that can start vibrating. If I heard and felt it correctly, the noise does not come from a specific point but rather diffuses from a section of pipe. Such vibrations tend to spread through the house and can then sound much louder and stronger far from their origin than right at the source.
Now I am wondering: Could it be that there is a buildup of limescale somewhere in the pipe system that partially blocks the pipe, causing vibrations when the water flow begins? I mean: in Berlin, everything calcifies if it is not regularly descaled, so why should a fresh water pipe system be any different?
If we assume this is the case: how could something like this be eliminated? If something is vibrating somewhere, the next step would be that something breaks eventually. Under no circumstances do I want a burst pressurized water pipe in my basement, even though such a failure would be detected quickly by sensors.
There is a drain screw in the service room where I could empty the system. If the valve is closed again afterward, it might be possible to introduce an acid through an upper-angle valve on the cold water side. I remember something like "use acetic acid for warm descaling, citric acid for cold descaling." If the appropriate solution is left in the system for a few hours, all the deposits should supposedly flow out thinly at the drain valve afterward, right?
Or are my assumptions going completely in the wrong direction?
Matthias
After more than 20 years, I have recently started noticing a short, low-pitched noise occurring whenever cold water is drawn somewhere in the house. For example, when the washing machine starts running, when flushing the toilet and the cistern is refilled, or simply when quickly opening a tap.
At first, I suspected anything related to water flowing through the basement, such as the utility company’s valves, at least one of which contains a spring, and also the backwash filter, which also includes a spring. It must be something that can start vibrating. If I heard and felt it correctly, the noise does not come from a specific point but rather diffuses from a section of pipe. Such vibrations tend to spread through the house and can then sound much louder and stronger far from their origin than right at the source.
Now I am wondering: Could it be that there is a buildup of limescale somewhere in the pipe system that partially blocks the pipe, causing vibrations when the water flow begins? I mean: in Berlin, everything calcifies if it is not regularly descaled, so why should a fresh water pipe system be any different?
If we assume this is the case: how could something like this be eliminated? If something is vibrating somewhere, the next step would be that something breaks eventually. Under no circumstances do I want a burst pressurized water pipe in my basement, even though such a failure would be detected quickly by sensors.
There is a drain screw in the service room where I could empty the system. If the valve is closed again afterward, it might be possible to introduce an acid through an upper-angle valve on the cold water side. I remember something like "use acetic acid for warm descaling, citric acid for cold descaling." If the appropriate solution is left in the system for a few hours, all the deposits should supposedly flow out thinly at the drain valve afterward, right?
Or are my assumptions going completely in the wrong direction?
Matthias
Of course, I need to have someone else replace the backwash filter. But I will have to handle the descaling myself. How long should someone expect to spend on this? Just draining it takes ages, and then the descaling agent needs to sit for several hours. The successor to my late heating technician certainly didn’t seem to have any idea what I was talking about...
Pianist schrieb:
How long is someone supposed to spend on that?Probably less time than you, since this person has the necessary experience and equipment.Pianist schrieb:
Just the emptying alone takes ages, and then the stuff has to soak for several hours.I understand that pipe flushing is usually done within closed loops. And yes, that can indeed take a few hours. Whether someone always needs to supervise it, I cannot say.Pianist schrieb:
The successor of my late heating technician certainly didn’t seem to have any idea what I was talking about...Then he is probably not the right contact person.H
HoisleBauer2217 Mar 2023 22:01Pianist schrieb:
Probably citric acid.Citric acid is only partially suitable for descaling, as it can leave behind citrate (a salt). Amidosulfonic acid is more effective and also gentler on metal. As far as I know, it can produce "amidosulfonates" as well, but not as much as citric acid, especially when heated. However, it’s best not to prepare it yourself. It’s recommended to have a professional plumbing company handle it.
Using vinegar in large quantities, mixed 1:1 in the cold water line, might help... but you would need a lot if you want to flush the hot water line (since everything runs through the boiler).
I don’t quite understand flushing through the faucet? There is pressure from the water supply line, and even if you turn off the faucet, only about 2 liters (0.5 gallons) of water might be missing in the pipe, and you can’t really push back much air... does it actually flow in that direction?
I think to make this work, you would also need a valve in the basement to drain the water from the pipe in order to properly "flush" it.
Definitely replace the backwash filter, but first flush the system, and only then insert the new filter.
I don’t quite understand flushing through the faucet? There is pressure from the water supply line, and even if you turn off the faucet, only about 2 liters (0.5 gallons) of water might be missing in the pipe, and you can’t really push back much air... does it actually flow in that direction?
I think to make this work, you would also need a valve in the basement to drain the water from the pipe in order to properly "flush" it.
Definitely replace the backwash filter, but first flush the system, and only then insert the new filter.
I have now read and understood your idea.
Then open the valve on the ground floor and drain all the water.
At the fixtures upstairs, pour in vinegar 1:1 (equal parts) until it flows out downstairs, then close the valve (shut it off) and wait... after 30 minutes, flush everything again with clear water.
It should improve then... the problem would be if the dissolved limescale has caused a leak somewhere in a pipe... then you would need to do a leak detection...
Then open the valve on the ground floor and drain all the water.
At the fixtures upstairs, pour in vinegar 1:1 (equal parts) until it flows out downstairs, then close the valve (shut it off) and wait... after 30 minutes, flush everything again with clear water.
It should improve then... the problem would be if the dissolved limescale has caused a leak somewhere in a pipe... then you would need to do a leak detection...
B
Buschreiter18 Mar 2023 09:17Out of ignorance, I once ruined the seals of a fitting using vinegar…