Good evening everyone,
I’m new here and, naturally, I have a “small” problem.
We bought a condominium in a building with two units through a developer. It was built to KfW 70 standard. We live on the first floor. We expected that a new building would have better sound insulation than the apartment from the 1960s where we lived before. Unfortunately, after moving in, we realized this wasn’t quite the case. So, we had airborne and impact sound transmission from below to above measured (which is unusual, yes). The results showed that even the increased soundproofing requirements were met. However, the expert said he hadn’t expected that and that this definitely isn’t normal.
Here is a brief overview of the noises we hear:
- When lying in bed in a quiet environment, you can hear the neighbor using the toilet. Flushing is even more noticeable.
- You can hear the faucet running from below, as well as the shower, when it’s quiet.
- The coffee machine from the neighbor, or when the beans are ground, is audible in every room here.
- The noise from the blinds is extreme. Whether electric or manual, when they are raised downstairs, we wake up. We talked about it, but they can’t get much quieter.
- Even sounds from the outside stairs, like someone walking up, can be heard.
- If someone works in the garage, the noise carries all the way into the apartment. It’s almost impossible to tell if it’s the neighbor downstairs or outside.
- When the neighbors have visitors for a longer time, which thankfully doesn’t happen often, there’s no chance of sleeping. You hear everything. For parties, we actually make sure to be out of the house. And I think that’s really extreme…
In general, I think the exterior wall is the problem. Everything gets transmitted through it. When you knock on it, it sounds hollow and can be heard everywhere. From what I’ve seen, it’s 36 cm (14 inches) brick filled with some kind of insulation wool. The two units are separated by a concrete slab and a screed layer. Unfortunately, I don’t know the thickness of the slab. Is this normal? Are you allowed to hear that? Is there a chance to raise a complaint about it?
Another problem is the extreme heat during summer, which was denied when we asked before purchasing. We were told it wouldn’t get warm because it was well insulated. A blatant lie…
I hope you have some advice. Thanks very much in advance and have a nice evening.
I’m new here and, naturally, I have a “small” problem.
We bought a condominium in a building with two units through a developer. It was built to KfW 70 standard. We live on the first floor. We expected that a new building would have better sound insulation than the apartment from the 1960s where we lived before. Unfortunately, after moving in, we realized this wasn’t quite the case. So, we had airborne and impact sound transmission from below to above measured (which is unusual, yes). The results showed that even the increased soundproofing requirements were met. However, the expert said he hadn’t expected that and that this definitely isn’t normal.
Here is a brief overview of the noises we hear:
- When lying in bed in a quiet environment, you can hear the neighbor using the toilet. Flushing is even more noticeable.
- You can hear the faucet running from below, as well as the shower, when it’s quiet.
- The coffee machine from the neighbor, or when the beans are ground, is audible in every room here.
- The noise from the blinds is extreme. Whether electric or manual, when they are raised downstairs, we wake up. We talked about it, but they can’t get much quieter.
- Even sounds from the outside stairs, like someone walking up, can be heard.
- If someone works in the garage, the noise carries all the way into the apartment. It’s almost impossible to tell if it’s the neighbor downstairs or outside.
- When the neighbors have visitors for a longer time, which thankfully doesn’t happen often, there’s no chance of sleeping. You hear everything. For parties, we actually make sure to be out of the house. And I think that’s really extreme…
In general, I think the exterior wall is the problem. Everything gets transmitted through it. When you knock on it, it sounds hollow and can be heard everywhere. From what I’ve seen, it’s 36 cm (14 inches) brick filled with some kind of insulation wool. The two units are separated by a concrete slab and a screed layer. Unfortunately, I don’t know the thickness of the slab. Is this normal? Are you allowed to hear that? Is there a chance to raise a complaint about it?
Another problem is the extreme heat during summer, which was denied when we asked before purchasing. We were told it wouldn’t get warm because it was well insulated. A blatant lie…
I hope you have some advice. Thanks very much in advance and have a nice evening.
B
Bieber081522 Nov 2016 16:02That sounds bad and unusual. But if you already had an inspector in the house, I wonder how much the forum can help? Especially regarding a defect notification to the builder.
Hm, I would try—also using the planning documents—to get to the bottom of the sound transmission (installation shafts ...).
Hm, I would try—also using the planning documents—to get to the bottom of the sound transmission (installation shafts ...).
The first inspector was completely incompetent, but the second one was very good, although only for sound measurements, nothing else. The results were basically acceptable. However, he himself said that the outcome was surprising even for him. Well...
Now we’re not quite sure how to proceed. We hesitate to file a complaint about defects because we don’t really know what consequences or costs might follow.
Somehow you hope it’s normal. But at the same time, you don’t want to live like that.
We only received the documents after several requests, and then only through the property management. I need to go there and request a copy.
Could this also be caused by the plaster? Like, is it possible that it transmits sound through the exterior wall?
Now we’re not quite sure how to proceed. We hesitate to file a complaint about defects because we don’t really know what consequences or costs might follow.
Somehow you hope it’s normal. But at the same time, you don’t want to live like that.
We only received the documents after several requests, and then only through the property management. I need to go there and request a copy.
Could this also be caused by the plaster? Like, is it possible that it transmits sound through the exterior wall?
The expert was just surprised. In writing, we only have the two results mentioned in the first post. The neighbors feel similarly but accept it as it is. However, we are generally very quiet and considerate. The neighbors are not, even though it has been mentioned to them many times.
Next door, an identical building was constructed. The neighbors there also complain a lot. So, our concerns are definitely justified.
The developer was present during the measurements at that time. He says he is open to everything and just wants us to be satisfied. Of course, he denies everything. If you know him, you realize that he basically doesn’t care at all. Complete hypocrites. We were even locked out during the construction phase because I complained here and there… with good reason. These issues were then resolved.
We have a warranty period of 4.5 years.
Next door, an identical building was constructed. The neighbors there also complain a lot. So, our concerns are definitely justified.
The developer was present during the measurements at that time. He says he is open to everything and just wants us to be satisfied. Of course, he denies everything. If you know him, you realize that he basically doesn’t care at all. Complete hypocrites. We were even locked out during the construction phase because I complained here and there… with good reason. These issues were then resolved.
We have a warranty period of 4.5 years.
Cross213 schrieb:
These values showed that even the enhanced soundproofing requirements were met. However, the expert said that he himself did not expect this and that it is definitely not normal.
.1. Before issuing a defect notice, you need to determine what is contractually owed. The case law of the Federal Court of Justice (BGH) can help you here. Try searching for: BGH enhanced soundproofing.
This concerns the DIN 4109 standard in multi-family housing construction, which is no longer sufficient today.
2. I do not understand the quoted passage above technically. Would that mean everything has to be completely quiet..?
Yes, a box was installed downstairs to generate noise, and measurements were taken upstairs to see what noise levels arrived. The measurement showed increased sound insulation. This test essentially simulates airborne noise, such as conversations. Structure-borne noise, which is the transmission of sound through the walls, was not measured because there apparently are no standards for it.
The problem is that activities in the kitchen, which is located on the exterior wall, can now be heard upstairs. Even the grinder of the coffee machine can be clearly heard in our area.
We could have technical systems measured as well, for example, the electric roller shutters. However, we were already informed about the very high limit values, which are almost always met. In other words, such a measurement would be pointless.
The problem is that activities in the kitchen, which is located on the exterior wall, can now be heard upstairs. Even the grinder of the coffee machine can be clearly heard in our area.
We could have technical systems measured as well, for example, the electric roller shutters. However, we were already informed about the very high limit values, which are almost always met. In other words, such a measurement would be pointless.
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