ᐅ New Construction or Buying and Renovating a House in Bavaria
Created on: 26 Oct 2023 22:51
W
Wo1z3rl
Hello everyone,
I have been a mostly silent reader in this forum for several years. About four years ago, my husband and I moved from the city to the Bavarian countryside, and for the past three years, we have been searching for a suitable property. Unfortunately, we never really found the right one—sometimes we were a day too late, other times the desired property was sold to a neighbor, and so on.
We are a family of four, with two children aged 2 1/2 and 5 years. I work full-time, while my husband is a stay-at-home dad. We have good savings and an additional net income of about 4,500 euros (including child and family allowances but excluding potential bonuses).
Here is the situation: My grandmother owns a plot of land in our town, about 1,200 m² (of which approximately 300 m² is a private road, so around 900 m² could be built on). About a year ago, she offered to transfer this land to us free of charge (to give some context, the standard land value in the new development area is about 135 euros per m²). After talking with my grandmother, I discussed this with the potential heirs—my father and three uncles—and initially, none of them seemed to have any objections. However, at least one uncle appears to have some underlying concerns, as he began discussing my grandmother’s possible will with her (there is none), which she did not appreciate at all.
The plot is located in the center of town and is not subject to a specific development plan but is designated as a mixed-use area in the land-use plan. The neighboring properties mostly consist of pitched-roof houses, ranging from single-family homes to multi-family buildings. In 2003, there was an approved building permit process for a house with a granny flat initiated by one of my uncles, but he eventually decided against building. The floor plans are no longer really up to date (pellet heating with a large tank in the basement, etc.); my uncle showed them to me. To make a long story short, my husband and I decided at that time, after the whole drama (and because I am quite picky and would prefer a south- or west-facing slope), to continue looking for renovation projects instead.
Currently, in our region, only run-down properties are available for at least 250,000 euros, while reasonably decent houses, mostly from the 1980s, cost around 450,000 euros. There have also been new semi-detached houses in the neighboring town priced at 430,000 euros, but these are too small for us (lack of a home office), and the neighboring town is remote with no shops within walking distance.
My father-in-law currently lives in the apartment next to us. If we can afford it, we would like to include him in a granny flat or separate apartment. Most of the older existing properties have very large living spaces of 220-300 m², so it seemed logical and sensible to us to somehow integrate him into the planning. We would of course try to do the same in a new build.
The big question now is whether we should continue looking for a renovation project or seize the opportunity to build on my grandmother’s land? We envision a house with about 160 m² of living space, a 40 m² (430 sq ft) granny flat, and a double carport—all within a budget of about 500,000 euros plus a 10% buffer. According to the rule of thumb of 3,000 euros per m², this seems very tight. :-(
My husband usually has some free time in the mornings, but in my opinion, he lacks significant practical skills, so I would try to subcontract all trades.
I have already compiled a list of construction companies within a radius of about 50 kilometers (30 miles). The issue that concerns me currently is the financial stability or liquidity of these companies: They are usually limited liability companies—how should one assess this as a potential future builder? Would it be better to avoid smaller firms and choose a larger one?
Thank you very much for reading!
I have been a mostly silent reader in this forum for several years. About four years ago, my husband and I moved from the city to the Bavarian countryside, and for the past three years, we have been searching for a suitable property. Unfortunately, we never really found the right one—sometimes we were a day too late, other times the desired property was sold to a neighbor, and so on.
We are a family of four, with two children aged 2 1/2 and 5 years. I work full-time, while my husband is a stay-at-home dad. We have good savings and an additional net income of about 4,500 euros (including child and family allowances but excluding potential bonuses).
Here is the situation: My grandmother owns a plot of land in our town, about 1,200 m² (of which approximately 300 m² is a private road, so around 900 m² could be built on). About a year ago, she offered to transfer this land to us free of charge (to give some context, the standard land value in the new development area is about 135 euros per m²). After talking with my grandmother, I discussed this with the potential heirs—my father and three uncles—and initially, none of them seemed to have any objections. However, at least one uncle appears to have some underlying concerns, as he began discussing my grandmother’s possible will with her (there is none), which she did not appreciate at all.
The plot is located in the center of town and is not subject to a specific development plan but is designated as a mixed-use area in the land-use plan. The neighboring properties mostly consist of pitched-roof houses, ranging from single-family homes to multi-family buildings. In 2003, there was an approved building permit process for a house with a granny flat initiated by one of my uncles, but he eventually decided against building. The floor plans are no longer really up to date (pellet heating with a large tank in the basement, etc.); my uncle showed them to me. To make a long story short, my husband and I decided at that time, after the whole drama (and because I am quite picky and would prefer a south- or west-facing slope), to continue looking for renovation projects instead.
Currently, in our region, only run-down properties are available for at least 250,000 euros, while reasonably decent houses, mostly from the 1980s, cost around 450,000 euros. There have also been new semi-detached houses in the neighboring town priced at 430,000 euros, but these are too small for us (lack of a home office), and the neighboring town is remote with no shops within walking distance.
My father-in-law currently lives in the apartment next to us. If we can afford it, we would like to include him in a granny flat or separate apartment. Most of the older existing properties have very large living spaces of 220-300 m², so it seemed logical and sensible to us to somehow integrate him into the planning. We would of course try to do the same in a new build.
The big question now is whether we should continue looking for a renovation project or seize the opportunity to build on my grandmother’s land? We envision a house with about 160 m² of living space, a 40 m² (430 sq ft) granny flat, and a double carport—all within a budget of about 500,000 euros plus a 10% buffer. According to the rule of thumb of 3,000 euros per m², this seems very tight. :-(
My husband usually has some free time in the mornings, but in my opinion, he lacks significant practical skills, so I would try to subcontract all trades.
I have already compiled a list of construction companies within a radius of about 50 kilometers (30 miles). The issue that concerns me currently is the financial stability or liquidity of these companies: They are usually limited liability companies—how should one assess this as a potential future builder? Would it be better to avoid smaller firms and choose a larger one?
Thank you very much for reading!
N
nordanney20 Sep 2024 10:10Wo1z3rl schrieb:
PS: Our eldest will turn 6 years old next month. We’re starting to feel the time pressure to have made a final decision about our future residence before starting school.Perfect timing milestones are:- Starting kindergarten at 3 years old
- Starting school
- Changing schools in fifth grade
Hello everyone,
I would like to give you an update on our current situation.
We have a potential building plot (oral agreement with the local authority) and are still waiting for the notary appointment. It is a southwest-facing sloping plot with 909 m² (9,780 sq ft). The total purchase costs for us, including additional fees, will be around 100,000 euros (slightly variable, as the connection fees will depend on our living area, so it may be a little more or less). We will pay this amount from our equity.
The plot is located at the end of a cul-de-sac with a turning area. The current kindergarten and the (future) primary school are within walking distance. The playground and sports fields are also just a few minutes on foot.
At the moment, we have mainly been working on the basic spatial program (motto: as small as possible and as large as necessary) and mood boards, collections of appealing exterior or interior views of single-family houses.
Maybe you can help me with this question regarding the choice of architect: There is an architectural firm that, in my opinion, has designed and managed very beautiful single-family houses, but it is much too far away for local construction supervision. Would it make sense here to initially commission only design phases 1-2 for the “concept” by this architect and, if we like it, possibly continue up to design phase 5? We would then carry out the tendering ourselves based on the trade planning and hire a local expert for the construction supervision.
I would like to give you an update on our current situation.
We have a potential building plot (oral agreement with the local authority) and are still waiting for the notary appointment. It is a southwest-facing sloping plot with 909 m² (9,780 sq ft). The total purchase costs for us, including additional fees, will be around 100,000 euros (slightly variable, as the connection fees will depend on our living area, so it may be a little more or less). We will pay this amount from our equity.
The plot is located at the end of a cul-de-sac with a turning area. The current kindergarten and the (future) primary school are within walking distance. The playground and sports fields are also just a few minutes on foot.
At the moment, we have mainly been working on the basic spatial program (motto: as small as possible and as large as necessary) and mood boards, collections of appealing exterior or interior views of single-family houses.
Maybe you can help me with this question regarding the choice of architect: There is an architectural firm that, in my opinion, has designed and managed very beautiful single-family houses, but it is much too far away for local construction supervision. Would it make sense here to initially commission only design phases 1-2 for the “concept” by this architect and, if we like it, possibly continue up to design phase 5? We would then carry out the tendering ourselves based on the trade planning and hire a local expert for the construction supervision.
Wo1z3rl schrieb:
At the moment, we have mainly been focusing on the basic room layout (motto: as small as possible and as large as necessary) and "mood boards," meaning collections of appealing exterior or interior views of single-family homes.
Maybe you can help me with this question about choosing an architect: There is an architectural firm that, in my opinion, has designed and supervised some very nice single-family homes, but it is located far too far away for local site supervision. Could it make sense to initially request only service phases 1-2 from this architect for the "concept" and, if we like it, to possibly continue up to service phase 5? We would then handle the tendering ourselves based on the trade planning and hire a local expert for site supervision. Oh. Considering the mood boards you mentioned earlier, I fear that you might have chosen your preferred architect based solely on the house pictures in their reference gallery. That would – not least because it often leads to a warning from @Gerddieter about architects – not be a recommended approach. In principle, I like the idea – have you read my "House Construction Roadmap for You: the HOAI Phase Model!"? – of commissioning the architect for the scope of Modules A and B. However, it shouldn’t depend only on whether you “like” the concept to continue planning with the same architect after the preparatory phase, with a decision point to continue either with the full Module B or just service phase 3 depending on the outcome. Thinking that you can work with an architect in the early phases regardless of their location is a misconception: developing a design mostly (or even entirely during service phases 2 and 3) via video conferences is something very few people (architects and clients alike) can manage successfully or without major issues.
Stopping after service phase 5 is fine; that is why I consider the end of Module B as the middle phase of architect involvement when building a masonry house. However, handling the tendering yourself is extremely risky for first-time building families. You don’t pilot a fighter jet with a moped license. Laypersons have an alarmingly “safe” talent for stumbling into financial pitfalls and turning the tender into a weapon for contractors to exploit their contracts like a smorgasbord of excesses. I know a lawyer who, although in the field of public procurement, makes a good living specializing in tender disputes.
Regarding the tendering, I am happy to connect you with a colleague. Hiring a local, site-supervising expert for the construction management is a good idea – but, as I said, only if you avoid the madness of attempting the tender yourself beforehand. By the way, where exactly in Bavaria are you located?
(if it comes to a prefabricated house, I would think of colleagues Zink or Beuler).
https://www.instagram.com/11antgmxde/
https://www.linkedin.com/company/bauen-jetzt/
Thank you for your reply, 11ant. I found your blog, read it, and tried to understand everything, in the spirit of "always making an effort." We are based in Lower Bavaria.
You are probably right that remote consulting with an architect is not ideal. On the other hand, it is the year 2024, and discussing and solving complex topics via video calls is part of my daily work routine, for example. Still, I have taken your point into account. Given that none of our relatives or acquaintances have built with a personally hired architect in the last 30 years, how would you specifically approach selecting an architect? I would rather not go through the Yellow Pages (I would rather not even mention the user-unfriendly website of the Bavarian Chamber of Architects…) calling alphabetically from A to Z.
It will be a long time before we can deal concretely with the tendering process. Until then, we might be so impressed with an architect or construction supervisor that we will happily and trustingly entrust them with this task.
Since this will probably be relevant later: I have attached the aerial photo we received from the municipality, as well as a section of the parcel map from the Bavaria Atlas and a photo taken from the cul-de-sac (each looking south, with the map oriented north). Unfortunately, I can’t really determine the elevations from the Bavaria Atlas, but the highest point is about 508 meters (1,667 feet) above sea level, and the lowest point (the street) is 502 meters (1,647 feet) above sea level. A large part of the plot is largely a gently sloping terrace, which then drops steeply to the street with a steep embankment. The area to the east of the plot remains green space. I have also attached the zoning plan; ours is parcel 20. By the way, the street can be accessed via Google Street View, so you can compare how the future neighbors have handled the "embankment."

You are probably right that remote consulting with an architect is not ideal. On the other hand, it is the year 2024, and discussing and solving complex topics via video calls is part of my daily work routine, for example. Still, I have taken your point into account. Given that none of our relatives or acquaintances have built with a personally hired architect in the last 30 years, how would you specifically approach selecting an architect? I would rather not go through the Yellow Pages (I would rather not even mention the user-unfriendly website of the Bavarian Chamber of Architects…) calling alphabetically from A to Z.
It will be a long time before we can deal concretely with the tendering process. Until then, we might be so impressed with an architect or construction supervisor that we will happily and trustingly entrust them with this task.
Since this will probably be relevant later: I have attached the aerial photo we received from the municipality, as well as a section of the parcel map from the Bavaria Atlas and a photo taken from the cul-de-sac (each looking south, with the map oriented north). Unfortunately, I can’t really determine the elevations from the Bavaria Atlas, but the highest point is about 508 meters (1,667 feet) above sea level, and the lowest point (the street) is 502 meters (1,647 feet) above sea level. A large part of the plot is largely a gently sloping terrace, which then drops steeply to the street with a steep embankment. The area to the east of the plot remains green space. I have also attached the zoning plan; ours is parcel 20. By the way, the street can be accessed via Google Street View, so you can compare how the future neighbors have handled the "embankment."
Wo1z3rl schrieb:
By the way, the street can be explored using Google Street View,Parking below, living above – and to the east, a wonderful view of the church tower. Nice!Wo1z3rl schrieb:
Thank you for your response, 11ant. I found your blog, read it, and tried my best to understand everything.
We are based in Lower Bavaria. The contact details are not there just for decoration; please feel free to use them if you have any questions.
Wo1z3rl schrieb:
Assuming that no relatives or acquaintances have built with a personally hired architect in the last 30 years, how would you specifically go about choosing an architect? I’d rather not just call through the entire listing from A to Z (I prefer not to even mention the user-unfriendly website of the Bavarian Chamber of Architects). Was my assumption correct about how you selected the architect you mentioned? The chamber websites aren’t the worst sources, and industry phone directories can also be quite helpful—if you know how to read them: you can usually exclude the large firms with multi-column ads for single-family house projects. You can also get a pretty good idea from their websites; when read properly, they are quite informative. And yes, calling those who remain on the list is indeed part of the process. More precisely: it’s important to call alongside reviewing their short portfolios. Even I only boil water at 100 degrees Celsius—I’m not in league with devils; it’s just “craftsmanship.”
https://www.instagram.com/11antgmxde/
https://www.linkedin.com/company/bauen-jetzt/
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