ᐅ New Construction Lighting Design and Implementation

R.Hotzenplotz schrieb:
We were discussing the Occhio Sento.

I wonder if the Deltalight Vision LED, which costs almost half as much, wouldn’t work just as well. It’s available in matte white as well, which I prefer.

Well, if you prefer it, that’s already a good argument in favor of the Deltalight.

The Occhio is round, like an eye (occhio means eye), and it’s also available in matte white — which is what we chose.

The fact that the Occhio is technically on another level is clear just from the CRI of 95 compared to the DL’s CRI 80. Whether that matters to you, I can’t say.

If you plan to use it in the stairwell, the Deltalight might be sufficient. I also understand that many features (gesture control, air function, light filters, etc.) might not be necessary there. Of course, these also add to the price, which you might not want to pay.

In our living room, two or three features were useful, but appearance, color accuracy, and build quality of the lamps were most important to us. Since we will also have two Mitos and one Piu Piano in the dining area, maintaining a consistent design was important. You can do that, but it’s certainly not mandatory.

Regarding manufacturing quality and value: When you hold the Occhio compared to the DL, you do notice the difference. Since they hang on the wall after installation, this might not be relevant to everyone. But this also explains a certain price difference — whether someone acknowledges this and is willing to pay for it is a personal decision. For us, it fits.

But the DL also provides plenty of brightness [emoji4]

ruppsn schrieb:
@R.Hotzenplotz I think @ypg is trying to point out that your designer doesn’t include floor lamps, shelf lighting, or other accessories in the concept, while from their perspective, these elements are essential parts of lighting design.

Exactly like that. You’ve got it [emoji4]
I can understand well that many who don’t have the talent themselves hire an interior designer, a lighting planner, or a garden planner to make the best out of the “space.”
But here I see way too much spotlighting, which doesn’t belong in proper overall room lighting. That’s more in the category of "pushing the limits of spot placement including KNX or other gadgets"—sorry, I know too little about the latter... but I’m more familiar with design.
A planned room lighting concept should include, among other things, main lighting as well as task lighting, reading light, and indirect lighting. It must be pointed out that in everyday life, nobody goes to the trouble of grabbing a pad every hour to change the lighting. Maybe turning one light off and another on occasionally, but you probably don’t want to hear all that.
Were those some dark glossy tiles shown somewhere? Are those the ones planned for installation?
If so, you should be aware that everything will be reflected in them, creating a very restless visual effect.

R.Hotzenplotz schrieb:
The designer plans everything. You can see examples like the pendant lights above the dining table, for instance.
…
In an office with leisure-quality atmosphere, I find it nice to create different lighting moods. For example, late in the evening, when I’m just working on the PC without reading, I don’t want full bright light on but rather just atmospheric lighting.

“Now there’s a brief romantic moment, but work also needs to be done... happy to do it later... come by when I’ve changed the lighting... after work, quickly change the lighting...”

For me, that’s too much theory that’s never actually applied because it simply doesn’t click in people’s minds to switch lighting modes during work or daily life.

In other words, I consider this planning to be an unrealized theory. Maybe suitable in the script of an American thriller.

Regarding the stairwell lighting: the first option fits your vision and the overall plan but is way too harsh and uncomfortable for using the stairs.
The second may be interesting where a playful style fits, but I find it, regardless of your new build, too specific to be integrated as a permanent emergency lighting solution in a stairwell.

Edit: Most lamps, like pictures and other decorations, naturally develop their place in a room over time. Living in it reveals what fits and what might fit better – the origin or brand name of the accessory or light plays a minor role; instead, the focus is more on its character and effect.

ypg schrieb:
Exactly THAT is how it is. You got it right.

You see, even I have my moments of clarity sometimes...

ypg schrieb:
I can well understand why some people, who don’t have the talent themselves, hire an interior designer, a lighting planner, or a garden designer to get the best out of the “space.”

Don’t you think that sounds a bit arrogant and overconfident? To put it bluntly, it almost sounds like you’re implying that professions like landscape gardeners (trained apprenticeships), lighting engineers (technical degrees), and interior architects (university degrees) aren’t needed at all if you just have talent like you do. I mean, these people do this professionally, and usually acquire broad knowledge, methodology, and—most importantly—experience through education, study, and work. You casually dismiss all of that as unnecessary, irrelevant, or just “theoretical.” Apart from the fact that this isn’t very respectful, isn’t it rather naive to believe that because of a self-proclaimed talent you are able to fully understand and master a whole profession better than those who have the appropriate methods and experience? I don’t know, it just sounds a bit like the widespread phenomenon where people think that after a little googling they have to tell the doctor how “medicine” actually works...

ypg schrieb:
But here I see way too many downlights, which don’t really belong to proper room lighting. It’s more like “pushing the limits of spotlight placement including KNX or other gimmicks.” Sorry, I don’t know enough about the latter... but I do know a lot about design.

I feel the same about the number of spots, I already said that. As far as I know, the lighting planner isn’t involved in the KNX setup. On what basis do you claim to know what constitutes proper room lighting? Maybe there’s a lighting engineer reading this who could learn something.

ypg schrieb:
Proper room lighting should include, among other things, main lighting as well as task, reading, and indirect lighting.

For me, it makes sense to consider all light sources comprehensively together with the architectural concepts of the building, but I definitely wouldn’t claim that all plans that don’t do this are wrong—because I haven’t trained in this profession, nor do I have the relevant experience or an all-encompassing talent—neither self-proclaimed nor objectively verified.

ypg schrieb:
It should be pointed out that in everyday life, nobody bothers to pick up some kind of tablet every hour to change the lighting.

No offense, but this statement clearly shows that you actually lack some knowledge about bus systems, smart homes, and their usage philosophy. Usually, people think and act in scenes, which include lighting setups as part of them. You don’t need to hold an iPad or do any contortions—you simply rarely switch individual lights (but you can if you really want to). If you want to cook, you just switch the “cooking” scene with an ordinary switch, which turns on and dims the preset lights and devices accordingly. If you want a cozy dinner, you select the “dining” scene, and so on. It would indeed be a bit of a gimmick to think that you have to control every single lamp individually at all times when in fact you almost always use the same lights and dim levels in certain situations (also called scenes). That’s totally absurd. Just offering a different perspective...

ypg schrieb:
There were some dark glossy tiles shown somewhere? Are those the ones being installed? If so, you realize that everything will be reflected in them? That creates total visual chaos.

I agree completely and would pay special attention to that. Imagine sitting on the toilet and the downlight shining directly into your face through the reflective surface. I also find downlights in showers or directly above shower heads questionable. Isn’t there a real risk of being badly dazzled every time you wash your hair? The “professionals” usually position the spot right above an oversized rain shower head... at least that doesn’t dazzle as much...

Why are you so focused on lamp types? Whether it’s a spotlight or a floor lamp, it’s purely a matter of personal taste. What matters is the light that comes out. If you want a light beam on the ceiling, it doesn’t really matter whether it’s a floor lamp, a wall lamp, or a spotlight from the floor creating it – why get stuck on that? These are simply different styles. Some people prefer light strips, others floor lamps...

ypg schrieb:
But I see way too many spotlights here, which don’t belong to proper general lighting.

Who decides what is too much or too little? Where is that defined?

ypg schrieb:
A planned general lighting includes, among other things, main lighting as well as task lighting, reading lights, and indirect lighting.

We don’t need additional reading lights. But no one asked for or suggested that either.

Indirect lighting will be implemented as needed after furnishing and moving in, once the lighting designer can see everything at the final stage. We have clearly stated in advance that we don’t want drywall bulkheads to create indirect lighting in this way.

ypg schrieb:
Maybe sometimes turn one off and another on, but blah blah blah you probably don’t want to hear that anyway.

That shows you don’t really understand KNX. Switching lighting scenes is just a push of a button. If you don’t want that, that’s fine. But there’s no need to demonize something else because of it.

ypg schrieb:
There were some dark high-gloss tiles shown somewhere? Are those the ones being installed? If so, you are aware everything will be reflected in them? That causes a lot of visual disturbance.

Both lighting designers and also the tiler (who has proven his taste multiple times on other projects) have no concerns here. I specifically asked and showed big pictures. But now you’re making me doubt again.

ypg schrieb:
This is way too much theory that isn’t really practiced, because it simply doesn’t click in your mind to switch during the work process or life.

This is not theory. That’s nonsense. For example, right now in our living room we have ceiling lights and an uplighter. Often, when we want to watch TV or relax on the couch, someone gets up, turns off the ceiling light and switches on the uplighter. Why shouldn’t this be done with KNX automation in a more complex form, since there are more lights, dimming, etc.? I don’t understand.

ypg schrieb:
Edit: most of the lamps, like pictures and other decorations, have to fit naturally into a room anyway.

Exactly, which is why I don’t understand the complaints about missing reading lights, indirect lighting, etc.


I wouldn’t write this if I didn’t want to have a discussion. But I find it unfortunate when everything that was worked out with experts during hours-long meetings is completely dismissed in just a few sentences. In my opinion, that’s somewhat contradictory. On one hand, you question the necessity of professional lighting design at all, but on the other hand, find so many things that don’t fit. And you think if I hadn’t involved the lighting designer, who you consider nonsense, my wife and I would have perfectly planned it alone? I can’t agree with that.

ruppsn schrieb:
I feel the same about the number of spotlights, as I already said. As far as I know, the lighting designer has nothing to do with the KNX planning.

Well, we like it with the spotlights. The lighting designer is not the electrician. But he is familiar with KNX and knows about the installation in our home. He has equipped his entire studio with KNX and controls all the lights there via tablet during consultations. I also told him which lighting scenes we want in each room.

Regarding the "many spotlights," I even considered removing some wall lights and instead illuminating the area with spotlights. What bothers me, for example, is that with the wall lights in the living room, there is no longer any way to hang our pictures. If we want to go that route, the wall lights would have to be removed and the pictures would need to be lit from the ceiling.