ᐅ New Construction in Planning: Which Heating System to Choose?
Created on: 27 Apr 2010 01:00
J
johnnyHello everyone,
we are planning to build a semi-detached house soon and are still undecided about which heating system to choose.
We have already visited several construction companies to get quotes for our house build, but each recommended a different heating solution.
Our plot has a relatively high groundwater level of 2.5 meters (8 feet).
The first company recommended a groundwater heat pump because of the high groundwater.
The second company suggested a standard gas heating system.
The third company recommended an air-to-water heat pump with a ventilation system (heat recovery).
Our insurance advisor (construction financer), who is also a good friend, suggested installing underfloor heating combined with solar energy. Is it possible to run underfloor heating solely with solar energy, and is that sufficient?
Of course, all offers are considered together with underfloor heating, and we also want to include a fireplace.
Our house will have two floors plus a basement and approximately 140 square meters (1,507 square feet) of living space excluding the basement.
I appreciate any advice!
we are planning to build a semi-detached house soon and are still undecided about which heating system to choose.
We have already visited several construction companies to get quotes for our house build, but each recommended a different heating solution.
Our plot has a relatively high groundwater level of 2.5 meters (8 feet).
The first company recommended a groundwater heat pump because of the high groundwater.
The second company suggested a standard gas heating system.
The third company recommended an air-to-water heat pump with a ventilation system (heat recovery).
Our insurance advisor (construction financer), who is also a good friend, suggested installing underfloor heating combined with solar energy. Is it possible to run underfloor heating solely with solar energy, and is that sufficient?
Of course, all offers are considered together with underfloor heating, and we also want to include a fireplace.
Our house will have two floors plus a basement and approximately 140 square meters (1,507 square feet) of living space excluding the basement.
I appreciate any advice!
6
6Richtige27 Apr 2010 11:45Hello jonny,
All three companies are correct, depending on what matters most to you: initial investment costs, operating costs, environmental impact, and possibly the available utilities.
You can’t fully heat a house with a solar system alone.
I would choose the provider who offers a waterproof basement in their proposal; the additional costs involved can also help you decide on the heating system. 😉
All three companies are correct, depending on what matters most to you: initial investment costs, operating costs, environmental impact, and possibly the available utilities.
You can’t fully heat a house with a solar system alone.
I would choose the provider who offers a waterproof basement in their proposal; the additional costs involved can also help you decide on the heating system. 😉
6Richtige schrieb:
Hello jonny,
all three companies are correct, depending on what matters most to you: investment costs, operating costs, environmental impact, and possibly the available utilities. A solar system alone cannot fully heat a house. I would choose the provider who offers a waterproof basement in their proposal; the additional costs involved will also help guide the choice of heating system 😉 Okay, all of them have offered a waterproof basement, but that also depends on the price. Therefore, we are leaning towards the first offer, which quotes the shell construction with a waterproof basement, exterior plaster, and interior plaster for about 60,000 (including insulation). This one also recommended a groundwater heat pump.
We don't mind if the heating system is a bit more expensive to buy, but we want to keep the monthly energy costs as low as possible. What would be good for that?
6
6Richtige27 Apr 2010 14:08Hello johnny,
In terms of operating costs, a groundwater heat pump is probably the most cost-effective, followed by an air-source heat pump, and then gas.
Did I understand correctly that you are estimating €60,000 for the shell construction of 210 m² (2,260 sq ft) of living/usable space, including a waterproof basement and insulation?
For the basement alone, with insulation and a waterproof tank but without earthworks, I would estimate around €40,000. It seems like something might be missing from the offer, right? How will the basement be constructed—white, brown, black, or orange tank? Are the pumping costs during construction already included, or will the basement ceiling be about one meter above ground level?
In terms of operating costs, a groundwater heat pump is probably the most cost-effective, followed by an air-source heat pump, and then gas.
Did I understand correctly that you are estimating €60,000 for the shell construction of 210 m² (2,260 sq ft) of living/usable space, including a waterproof basement and insulation?
For the basement alone, with insulation and a waterproof tank but without earthworks, I would estimate around €40,000. It seems like something might be missing from the offer, right? How will the basement be constructed—white, brown, black, or orange tank? Are the pumping costs during construction already included, or will the basement ceiling be about one meter above ground level?
Hello,
That is not surprising at all. If you asked more, you would get X more variations, and the confusion would be complete! There is definitely no single, ultimate heating system that fits all cases. However, there is an especially advantageous solution for each individual project. This solution must be found. The building, its orientation, location, climate zone, user behavior, etc. all form a unit. The building services engineering (heating, domestic hot water preparation, ventilation, etc.) must always be considered as a whole.
Without knowledge of your individual boundary conditions, no objective recommendation can be made that is both sensible and effective.
The groundwater level alone is not a sufficient criterion for choosing a groundwater heat pump! Due to requirements for water quality, there are relatively few locations where the effective use of a groundwater heat pump is possible. Here, too, the specific conditions must first be clarified (extraction/recharge wells; iron oxide deposits). If the peripherals are suitable, very good annual performance factors can be achieved.
That can be an option, but it does not mean that it is actually the most cost-effective choice for you. Often, guesses and assumptions are made instead of detailed calculations, which can prove very disadvantageous during operation.
Again, the above applies: the framework conditions must be clarified first! Air-source heat pumps have characteristic curves that often conflict strongly with the actual demand curve of the building. Therefore, they are mostly used in a bivalent system, meaning that at low outdoor temperatures they operate with an additional electric heating element. This means partial electric heating! Otherwise, they would be severely oversized in normal operation, which can cause significant problems. Additionally, a ventilation system is mentioned here, making a direct comparison difficult!
It should be determined in advance whether a ventilation system is necessary or just desired for comfort reasons. The efficiency values often advertised for heat recovery are usually not reached in practical operation. Thus, this investment should also be carefully evaluated in advance.
Nevertheless, despite their lower annual performance factors compared to other heat pumps, air-to-water heat pumps can be a good solution in individual cases, provided they are properly sized. Here, the energy demand for domestic hot water preparation has a particularly strong influence.
Where does the insurance advisor get this knowledge? He certainly does not have training in building services engineering! When you have tooth pain, you don’t go to the baker!!!
Again, this is a general, off-the-shelf approach. Both underfloor heating and radiators or convectors each have advantages and disadvantages. Underfloor heating and radiators are relatively slow to respond, so on-demand heating is hardly possible; this means they usually need to run continuously! The fireplace will primarily serve the experience of having a fire. Sustainable savings effects combined with underfloor heating are hardly achievable since it responds inadequately to the additional heat source. Radiators or convectors are much better suited here. Their fast control behavior allows heating “ad libitum.” External heat sources (fireplace) can be used much more effectively. Depending on user behavior and the building’s insulation standard, this can result in noticeable savings without loss of comfort.
With increasingly well-insulated building envelopes, these savings become smaller, so the difference barely matters anymore. The precise limit can be calculated in advance.
For heat pumps as the heat generator, underfloor heating is a prerequisite for effective operation. Warm feet in the bathroom are no longer just a comfort feature; frequently, additional heating surfaces are required.
In general: before signing any contracts, a thorough review and calculation are essential. This includes heating load (DIN 12831) and the annual energy demand for heating and domestic hot water. Based on this, the overall concept is developed. The results from energy-saving regulations’ proof calculations are generally not suitable for this purpose!
Objective and independent advice is only provided by a qualified expert who neither sells, installs nor brokers!
Best regards
johnny schrieb:
We have already visited several construction companies to get quotes for building our house, but each one has proposed a different heating system.
That is not surprising at all. If you asked more, you would get X more variations, and the confusion would be complete! There is definitely no single, ultimate heating system that fits all cases. However, there is an especially advantageous solution for each individual project. This solution must be found. The building, its orientation, location, climate zone, user behavior, etc. all form a unit. The building services engineering (heating, domestic hot water preparation, ventilation, etc.) must always be considered as a whole.
Without knowledge of your individual boundary conditions, no objective recommendation can be made that is both sensible and effective.
johnny schrieb:
… The first construction company recommended a groundwater heat pump because of the high groundwater level.
The groundwater level alone is not a sufficient criterion for choosing a groundwater heat pump! Due to requirements for water quality, there are relatively few locations where the effective use of a groundwater heat pump is possible. Here, too, the specific conditions must first be clarified (extraction/recharge wells; iron oxide deposits). If the peripherals are suitable, very good annual performance factors can be achieved.
johnny schrieb:
… The second company recommended a standard gas heating system.
That can be an option, but it does not mean that it is actually the most cost-effective choice for you. Often, guesses and assumptions are made instead of detailed calculations, which can prove very disadvantageous during operation.
johnny schrieb:
… And the third company recommended an air-to-water heat pump with a ventilation system (heat recovery).
Again, the above applies: the framework conditions must be clarified first! Air-source heat pumps have characteristic curves that often conflict strongly with the actual demand curve of the building. Therefore, they are mostly used in a bivalent system, meaning that at low outdoor temperatures they operate with an additional electric heating element. This means partial electric heating! Otherwise, they would be severely oversized in normal operation, which can cause significant problems. Additionally, a ventilation system is mentioned here, making a direct comparison difficult!
It should be determined in advance whether a ventilation system is necessary or just desired for comfort reasons. The efficiency values often advertised for heat recovery are usually not reached in practical operation. Thus, this investment should also be carefully evaluated in advance.
Nevertheless, despite their lower annual performance factors compared to other heat pumps, air-to-water heat pumps can be a good solution in individual cases, provided they are properly sized. Here, the energy demand for domestic hot water preparation has a particularly strong influence.
johnny schrieb:
… And our insurance advisor (construction financier), who is also a good friend of ours, suggested we install underfloor heating with solar energy. Can you really operate underfloor heating with solar alone? Is that enough?
Where does the insurance advisor get this knowledge? He certainly does not have training in building services engineering! When you have tooth pain, you don’t go to the baker!!!
johnny schrieb:
Of course, all offers will be combined with underfloor heating, and we also want a fireplace.
Again, this is a general, off-the-shelf approach. Both underfloor heating and radiators or convectors each have advantages and disadvantages. Underfloor heating and radiators are relatively slow to respond, so on-demand heating is hardly possible; this means they usually need to run continuously! The fireplace will primarily serve the experience of having a fire. Sustainable savings effects combined with underfloor heating are hardly achievable since it responds inadequately to the additional heat source. Radiators or convectors are much better suited here. Their fast control behavior allows heating “ad libitum.” External heat sources (fireplace) can be used much more effectively. Depending on user behavior and the building’s insulation standard, this can result in noticeable savings without loss of comfort.
With increasingly well-insulated building envelopes, these savings become smaller, so the difference barely matters anymore. The precise limit can be calculated in advance.
For heat pumps as the heat generator, underfloor heating is a prerequisite for effective operation. Warm feet in the bathroom are no longer just a comfort feature; frequently, additional heating surfaces are required.
In general: before signing any contracts, a thorough review and calculation are essential. This includes heating load (DIN 12831) and the annual energy demand for heating and domestic hot water. Based on this, the overall concept is developed. The results from energy-saving regulations’ proof calculations are generally not suitable for this purpose!
Objective and independent advice is only provided by a qualified expert who neither sells, installs nor brokers!
Best regards
This was the offer from the first construction company.
About 60,000 for the shell construction, including a waterproof basement, insulation, exterior/interior plaster, but without window installation.
Whether it’s a brown waterproofing system, white waterproofing system, or some other type, I have no idea. I don’t even know the difference. So far, I’ve only heard of a white waterproofing system, but I’m not really sure what that means.
I’m not sure if the excavation work is included. The detailed offer should arrive this week. So far, they have only given a rough estimate and mentioned what is included (insulation, exterior/interior plaster). They didn’t specify what’s not included, and I hope there won’t be any hidden catches in the offer.
Can you explain the differences between the waterproofing systems?
About 60,000 for the shell construction, including a waterproof basement, insulation, exterior/interior plaster, but without window installation.
Whether it’s a brown waterproofing system, white waterproofing system, or some other type, I have no idea. I don’t even know the difference. So far, I’ve only heard of a white waterproofing system, but I’m not really sure what that means.
I’m not sure if the excavation work is included. The detailed offer should arrive this week. So far, they have only given a rough estimate and mentioned what is included (insulation, exterior/interior plaster). They didn’t specify what’s not included, and I hope there won’t be any hidden catches in the offer.
Can you explain the differences between the waterproofing systems?
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