ᐅ New construction, 200 sqm plus basement, with a mansard roof
Created on: 6 Jun 2021 22:31
B
Blue_guru
Hello everyone,
after a long time of reading and several planning rounds, we would like to get your opinions on our current planning status.
The plot just outside Hamburg is already secured but is very long and narrow (widest point 20m (65 feet)).
There is no local development plan, only a building envelope diagonally crossing the plot with a width of 20m (65 feet).
Due to the relatively high groundwater level from the marshy soil, the basement can only be dug about 1.5m (5 feet) deep, possibly only 1m (3 feet). This will be clarified this week when the soil report arrives.
At the start of our planning, we intended to have 1 office and 2 children's rooms; however, due to changes in our professional and personal circumstances, we now need to plan for 2 offices and actually 4 children's rooms...
Building Regulations / Restrictions
Plot size: approx. 1000m² (11,000 sq ft), width 16-20m (52-65 feet)
Slope: gently sloping, approx. 1m (3 feet)
Floor area ratio (FAR) / site coverage: no specification
Building envelope, building line, and boundary: yes, building envelope diagonally across the plot, 20m (65 feet) wide, otherwise usual 3m (10 feet) setback
Number of parking spaces: 2 (1.5 per housing unit)
Building height: max. 12m (39 feet)
Roof shape: no specification
Architectural style: no specification
Homeowners’ Requirements
Style, building type: classic, townhouse
Roof type: mansard roof (very typical for this area)
Basement, floors: basement + ground floor + upper floor
Number of occupants, ages: 6 (two adults, 2 children + twins coming soon 😀)
Spaces on ground floor: living room, separate kitchen, 2 offices (both working from home, one also serving as a guest room), guest toilet, sufficient storage space is essential for 6 people
Spaces on upper floor: master bedroom, dressing room, master bath, children’s bathroom, minimum 3 children's bedrooms each at least 15m² (160 sq ft)
Offices: 2 due to parallel home office use
Number of guest stays per year: about once a month
Open or closed floor plan: closed
Conservative or modern construction: conservative / classic
Open kitchen, cooking island: closed kitchen without an island, but a freestanding side-by-side refrigerator would be great
Number of dining seats: 8-10
Fireplace: yes
Music/sound wall: no
Balcony, roof terrace: yes
Garage, carport: yes, double carport
Utility garden, greenhouse: no
Additional wishes / special features:
- Master bedroom may only face the garden
- Possibility to add a granny flat in the basement later
Style, roof form, building type: townhouse style with mansard roof. We like the mansard roof because it limits roof slope restrictions on the upper floor and visually reduces the height somewhat. Due to the basement partially above ground level, the house otherwise appears quite tall for 2.5 full stories.
Basement, floors: basement, ground floor, upper floor
House Design
Who designed the plan: custom design by the architect of the planned general contractor
Offer for the house (including painting, flooring, and pre-selection): approx. 850,000 EUR
What do you particularly like? Why?
The ground floor overall is good, open staircase to the hallway, double doors to the living room, kitchen can be opened to the living room by sliding door, we like the mansard roof as well.
Children's rooms are all about the same size.
Laundry chute.
What do you dislike? Why?
- The house is quite large, but some rooms still feel tight, especially upstairs
- Master bathroom is too small; we would like a 1.8m (6 feet) bathtub, washbasin with two sinks, and a 1.4m x 1m (4.6 feet x 3.3 feet) shower. A separate toilet is "nice to have" but could be integrated into the bathroom if that solves the problem.
- Dressing room is borderline narrow, but the bedroom cannot be significantly reduced.
- We would actually need another children's room. The idea now is that the younger children share a room at first until eventually one office from the ground floor moves to the basement... or a child 😉
- Kitchen on the ground floor is a bit too narrow; we won’t be able to fit the freestanding side-by-side fridge.
- Window in the office /
- Windows on the east side (street side) are unfortunately not very symmetrical from the outside.
- You have to walk around the house to reach the carport; no direct access from the basement to the carport or garden. However, if the carport were on the north side, the house would shift too far to the south side. There is a large/tall 5-family house about 3m (10 feet) away on that side, so more setback there means more sun exposure.
Preferred heating technology: ground-source heat pump
If you had to give up something, which details or additions?
- Can give up: actually nothing 🙄 maybe the fireplace.
- Cannot give up: basement, laundry chute, min. 15m² (160 sq ft) in the children's rooms, children's bathroom, shower in guest WC
Why is the design the way it is?
Two years of planning have gone into this 😀
Started with our own sketches, then last year the first attempt with an architect whose designs we didn’t like, so we didn’t find common ground.
The plan from the architect of our preferred general contractor hit the mark much better on the second attempt.
We are basically quite satisfied; most of our ideas could be incorporated except the points mentioned above.
What is the most important/basic question about the floor plan in 130 characters?
How to get more space for the master bathroom upstairs? We just can’t find a solution without extending the whole house by about 20cm (8 inches).
Where else do you see room for optimization?
after a long time of reading and several planning rounds, we would like to get your opinions on our current planning status.
The plot just outside Hamburg is already secured but is very long and narrow (widest point 20m (65 feet)).
There is no local development plan, only a building envelope diagonally crossing the plot with a width of 20m (65 feet).
Due to the relatively high groundwater level from the marshy soil, the basement can only be dug about 1.5m (5 feet) deep, possibly only 1m (3 feet). This will be clarified this week when the soil report arrives.
At the start of our planning, we intended to have 1 office and 2 children's rooms; however, due to changes in our professional and personal circumstances, we now need to plan for 2 offices and actually 4 children's rooms...
Building Regulations / Restrictions
Plot size: approx. 1000m² (11,000 sq ft), width 16-20m (52-65 feet)
Slope: gently sloping, approx. 1m (3 feet)
Floor area ratio (FAR) / site coverage: no specification
Building envelope, building line, and boundary: yes, building envelope diagonally across the plot, 20m (65 feet) wide, otherwise usual 3m (10 feet) setback
Number of parking spaces: 2 (1.5 per housing unit)
Building height: max. 12m (39 feet)
Roof shape: no specification
Architectural style: no specification
Homeowners’ Requirements
Style, building type: classic, townhouse
Roof type: mansard roof (very typical for this area)
Basement, floors: basement + ground floor + upper floor
Number of occupants, ages: 6 (two adults, 2 children + twins coming soon 😀)
Spaces on ground floor: living room, separate kitchen, 2 offices (both working from home, one also serving as a guest room), guest toilet, sufficient storage space is essential for 6 people
Spaces on upper floor: master bedroom, dressing room, master bath, children’s bathroom, minimum 3 children's bedrooms each at least 15m² (160 sq ft)
Offices: 2 due to parallel home office use
Number of guest stays per year: about once a month
Open or closed floor plan: closed
Conservative or modern construction: conservative / classic
Open kitchen, cooking island: closed kitchen without an island, but a freestanding side-by-side refrigerator would be great
Number of dining seats: 8-10
Fireplace: yes
Music/sound wall: no
Balcony, roof terrace: yes
Garage, carport: yes, double carport
Utility garden, greenhouse: no
Additional wishes / special features:
- Master bedroom may only face the garden
- Possibility to add a granny flat in the basement later
Style, roof form, building type: townhouse style with mansard roof. We like the mansard roof because it limits roof slope restrictions on the upper floor and visually reduces the height somewhat. Due to the basement partially above ground level, the house otherwise appears quite tall for 2.5 full stories.
Basement, floors: basement, ground floor, upper floor
House Design
Who designed the plan: custom design by the architect of the planned general contractor
Offer for the house (including painting, flooring, and pre-selection): approx. 850,000 EUR
What do you particularly like? Why?
The ground floor overall is good, open staircase to the hallway, double doors to the living room, kitchen can be opened to the living room by sliding door, we like the mansard roof as well.
Children's rooms are all about the same size.
Laundry chute.
What do you dislike? Why?
- The house is quite large, but some rooms still feel tight, especially upstairs
- Master bathroom is too small; we would like a 1.8m (6 feet) bathtub, washbasin with two sinks, and a 1.4m x 1m (4.6 feet x 3.3 feet) shower. A separate toilet is "nice to have" but could be integrated into the bathroom if that solves the problem.
- Dressing room is borderline narrow, but the bedroom cannot be significantly reduced.
- We would actually need another children's room. The idea now is that the younger children share a room at first until eventually one office from the ground floor moves to the basement... or a child 😉
- Kitchen on the ground floor is a bit too narrow; we won’t be able to fit the freestanding side-by-side fridge.
- Window in the office /
- Windows on the east side (street side) are unfortunately not very symmetrical from the outside.
- You have to walk around the house to reach the carport; no direct access from the basement to the carport or garden. However, if the carport were on the north side, the house would shift too far to the south side. There is a large/tall 5-family house about 3m (10 feet) away on that side, so more setback there means more sun exposure.
Preferred heating technology: ground-source heat pump
If you had to give up something, which details or additions?
- Can give up: actually nothing 🙄 maybe the fireplace.
- Cannot give up: basement, laundry chute, min. 15m² (160 sq ft) in the children's rooms, children's bathroom, shower in guest WC
Why is the design the way it is?
Two years of planning have gone into this 😀
Started with our own sketches, then last year the first attempt with an architect whose designs we didn’t like, so we didn’t find common ground.
The plan from the architect of our preferred general contractor hit the mark much better on the second attempt.
We are basically quite satisfied; most of our ideas could be incorporated except the points mentioned above.
What is the most important/basic question about the floor plan in 130 characters?
How to get more space for the master bathroom upstairs? We just can’t find a solution without extending the whole house by about 20cm (8 inches).
Where else do you see room for optimization?
I like the house! The mansard roof is really attractive, my personal favorite. Unfortunately, it’s probably the most expensive roof style. Alternative roof designs would likely make the house look more like a six-family dwelling due to its size – so this is a good choice. Even though other roof types might provide more space upstairs. But it seems the budget is fortunately quite generous 😉. Congratulations on that and of course on the new addition to the family.
I also find the balcony design stylish and well thought out. I wouldn’t worry too much about a fourth bedroom; we were three and (two boys) shared one bedroom until we were about 10 years old. It didn’t harm us. In 5 to 10 years, the situation will likely change again. The rooms can be rearranged then. Not everything can or needs to be perfectly planned from the start.
I also find the balcony design stylish and well thought out. I wouldn’t worry too much about a fourth bedroom; we were three and (two boys) shared one bedroom until we were about 10 years old. It didn’t harm us. In 5 to 10 years, the situation will likely change again. The rooms can be rearranged then. Not everything can or needs to be perfectly planned from the start.
H
hanghaus20008 Jun 2021 08:20ypg schrieb:
I quite like the clipped hip roof. The house looks good. I can even imagine it with a hipped roof. But the overall architectural style is not really my preference. The tall basement, the mansard roof—are these commonly built in northern regions?
In my opinion, the floor plans are quite good.
First of all, hello and congratulations on having twins and a really nice house for six people!
You are also fortunate to have enough space to consider zoning and quiet areas. Here are a few suggestions:
- Office/home office/guest room in the basement (which has standard windows), with a shower bathroom directly adjacent. Then, on the ground floor, you would only need a toilet. The larger room downstairs including the bathroom would also be great for mattress sleepover parties for the kids, while you can enjoy peace upstairs.
- This way, one of the offices on the ground floor can be removed. Workspace 1 might be problematic anyway due to noise when the kids come home from school. It’s better to have a bigger kitchen, for example with a long island (baking cookies with four children all bustling around!).
- Later on, the master bedroom could be moved to the basement. This would be especially valuable when the children reach their teenage years!
You are also fortunate to have enough space to consider zoning and quiet areas. Here are a few suggestions:
- Office/home office/guest room in the basement (which has standard windows), with a shower bathroom directly adjacent. Then, on the ground floor, you would only need a toilet. The larger room downstairs including the bathroom would also be great for mattress sleepover parties for the kids, while you can enjoy peace upstairs.
- This way, one of the offices on the ground floor can be removed. Workspace 1 might be problematic anyway due to noise when the kids come home from school. It’s better to have a bigger kitchen, for example with a long island (baking cookies with four children all bustling around!).
- Later on, the master bedroom could be moved to the basement. This would be especially valuable when the children reach their teenage years!
S
Stefan2.848 Jun 2021 08:35I'm not an expert in floor plans, so I can only say that I think it's cool. But I do have a question about the small restroom on the upper floor: Does it have a sink? I've never seen anything like that before! What's the reason for it? Just out of curiosity....
hanghaus2000 schrieb:
But the architectural style is generally not my preference. The high basement, the mansard roof? Is that commonly built in the north? No, it’s traditional, so more of a luxury feature. I rarely see a half-hipped roof. It’s not really my style either.
But it’s always nice when someone can afford it. The area benefits from a mix of styles – and brick cladding fits better than white plaster.
B
Blue_guru9 Jun 2021 00:17Thank you very much for the great response, it’s already very reassuring 😉
In the kitchen I’m missing 10-20 cm (4-8 inches) to fit a side-by-side fridge.
In the upstairs bathroom, the shower is currently only 85 cm (33 inches) wide instead of the desired 90-100 cm (35-39 inches)...
Or the bathtub is missing 10 cm (4 inches)...
And to put a small dresser opposite the bed in the bedroom, there’s really not enough space 😳
Do we really need it separate? No!
Is it practical? Absolutely!
In our current house it just happened to be that way already. But we’ve come to really appreciate that one person having a longer session doesn’t block the bathroom for the other... and also no odor issues ever become a problem in the bathroom...
haydee schrieb:Thanks for the tip, I hadn’t really noticed that before. Although in everyday use it will probably be a somewhat smaller table. And if you extend it to 3 m (9.8 ft) for many guests, it will just be a bit tight...
Make sure to draw in all existing and planned furniture. The dining area on the ground floor is too narrow. For a 1x3 m (3.3x9.8 ft) table, you need at least 2.6 m x 4.8 m (8.5x15.7 ft).
haydee schrieb:Well, for the next few years I think our bedroom will need to be close to the kids’ rooms. And honestly, we don’t really like the idea of the bedroom being all the way downstairs. We didn’t even plan the balcony upstairs for the kids 😉
In the basement, a future master suite with bedroom, walk-in closet, bathroom.
ypg schrieb:When I’m furnishing, I always feel like there’s 10-20 cm (4-8 inches) missing everywhere...
I don’t think so. They’re all quite comfortable.
In the kitchen I’m missing 10-20 cm (4-8 inches) to fit a side-by-side fridge.
In the upstairs bathroom, the shower is currently only 85 cm (33 inches) wide instead of the desired 90-100 cm (35-39 inches)...
Or the bathtub is missing 10 cm (4 inches)...
And to put a small dresser opposite the bed in the bedroom, there’s really not enough space 😳
ypg schrieb:My wife! 😀 She is very sensitive to noise and there is a fairly busy street running in front of the house...
Who says that?
ypg schrieb:Not for renting out to strangers, but e.g. for my mother-in-law when she can’t live alone anymore... or later a caregiver for us in old age 😀
I don’t see that. Who would use it? No access outside, window facing your garden side and always passing through private rooms...
ypg schrieb:We initially thought about that as well. But the architect advised against it because, in his opinion, it often causes problems with water collecting there and seeping in, since our groundwater level is very high at 80-90 cm (31-35 inches).
You could make a patio door next to the terrace under the living room window with a sloping ledge...
ypg schrieb:We tried that at the very beginning and then abandoned it for some reason. But the room wouldn’t really be any wider. Thanks for the idea, we’ll think about it again!
Have you tried swapping the kitchen with the study? Then adjust the rest accordingly? The double door could then be placed near the staircase.
ypg schrieb:That’s an idea we’ve also considered. We might even get a little more width that way. But then it would partly extend in front of the house. Not sure if that would look good?
You could turn the carport and access it from the north corner of the plot.
ypg schrieb:It’s actually a mansard roof 😉
I like the clipped hip roof. The house looks good.
hanghaus2000 schrieb:The high basement is simply because of the very high groundwater level... the only alternative would be no basement at all... The mansard roof used to be very common here. You only find it rarely on newer houses nowadays.
I can imagine a clipped hip roof. But the overall building style is not my taste. The high basement, the mansard roof? Is that commonly built in the north?
Elokine schrieb:
- Office/home office/guest room in the basement (which has regular windows) with an adjacent shower bathroom. Then just a toilet on the ground floor. The larger room downstairs including bathroom is also great for kids’ mattress sleepovers, and you have peace upstairs.
- Then you could remove one of the offices from the ground floor; “Workroom 1” might be difficult anyway due to noise when the kids come home from school. Better have a larger kitchen, for example with a long island (cookie baking with 4 kids all bustling around!)
- Later the master bedroom could move to the basement. Especially when the kids become teenagers, that would be very valuable!
ypg schrieb:
I also think that works well. If you need a separate toilet for two people... okay 🙂
Stefan2.84 schrieb:Yes, a small sink should definitely be included there.
I’m no floor plan expert, so I’ll just say I like it. But I have one question about the small WC on the upper floor: Is there a sink? I’ve never seen anything like that! What’s the reason? Just curious...
Do we really need it separate? No!
Is it practical? Absolutely!
In our current house it just happened to be that way already. But we’ve come to really appreciate that one person having a longer session doesn’t block the bathroom for the other... and also no odor issues ever become a problem in the bathroom...
Similar topics