ᐅ New Construction – Which Smart Home System?

Patricck schrieb:

Why more wires? Four conductors, that’s what I have in the KNX cable as well.

However, you only need two in KNX; with Tree, you always need all four. Besides, you are not allowed to install it together with NYM cable, and the disadvantages don’t stop there.

Patricck schrieb:

500 group addresses are enough, either I go with Loxone or KNX, mixing both isn’t really practical, and for a few actuators, it’s actually sufficient. Unless someone really wants to play the KNX mouse piano.

Well, Loxone only became widely accepted because it was compatible with KNX. Let’s see what the future holds. There are already voices saying it will no longer be used.

Generally, people want to use all available options, not just selected ones dictated by the manufacturer. For the average Loxone user, 500 addresses might be enough. I find that at least questionable.

For example: A Rademacher X-Line device has 45 communication objects. A 4-channel dimmer has 40, so you don’t get very far with just these. Granted, you won’t use 100% of the communication objects, but often around 90%, and additionally, you can assign them doubly or triply if needed. This means the 500 addresses are roughly used up after about two dimmers and 10 motors. (Instead of motors, you can also use any other KNX-compatible devices, e.g., push-button sensors.) Of course, this example is not perfect, but it’s meant to illustrate what 500 group addresses actually represent.

matte1987 schrieb:

Initially, I was focused on Loxone because of the local connection.

Have you ever visited their site? It's close to Wegscheid, right?

Grantlhaua schrieb:

Have you ever been there in person? It’s near Wegscheid, right?

I had planned to, but after choosing KNX, it wasn’t necessary anymore. Yes, in Kollerschlag, near Wegscheid, but only in Austria.

I don’t really need or want Sonos and Hue. And even if I did, there are solutions available.

I can also use the tree cable for KNX, and although KNX only requires 1 DA, there are always 2 DAs in the cable. So switching over is always possible.

I have no problem with KNX, but there are definitely other alternatives, whether it’s Loxone or Free@Home.

You just have to check in advance what is compatible, instead of the usual approach of buying first and then trying to figure out how to make it work together. So far, I haven’t faced any limitations in my house build where something was missing or couldn’t be implemented. Material costs are around 16,000 euros, and I have everything I need.

I have experience mixing brands. As long as it works, everything is fine, but if it doesn’t, don’t expect help from the manufacturers—they always blame each other.

Patricck schrieb:

I have no problem with KNX, but there are definitely other alternatives, whether Loxone or Free@Home.

However, both alternatives have a major drawback. If the manufacturer loses interest in the system or goes out of business, users face a big problem. This is not like a TV that can simply be replaced; you have to live with the system for decades.

Patricck schrieb:

I can also use the Tree cable for KNX, and even though KNX only needs 1 data pair, the cable always contains 2 data pairs.

Well, you see, with KNX you get two pairs for the price of one.

For comparison:

Tree cable about €1.50 per meter (about $0.65 per ft)
KNX cable about €0.29 per meter (about $0.13 per ft)

And if you add NYM cable for KNX at €0.39 per meter (about $0.17 per ft), you’re still below the 50% mark.

If you use CAT7 cable, you also need to factor in installation conduit, so it doesn’t become cheaper either. No matter how you turn it, KNX wiring is more cost-effective, even though it’s often said to be much too expensive. LOXONE costs even more, so where’s the advantage?

Patricck schrieb:

So retrofitting would be possible at any time.

Actually, it’s better not to approach things with the mindset that you want to retrofit later. Why not do it right from the start?

Patricck schrieb:

I have no problem with KNX, but there are definitely other alternatives, whether Loxone or Free@Home.

Neither do I, but I usually don’t recommend proprietary systems in this area (except maybe for standalone solutions), because they always cause extra headaches. That’s been the case always and will probably remain so. Who needs that?

An alternative is only an alternative in home construction as long as it is at least equivalent in quality and similar in price. Builders often scrutinize every cent carefully. KNX is considered too expensive by many before they even start, often just based on hearsay. So why consider alternatives that, under the same conditions, cause even larger budget gaps?

Patricck schrieb:

You just have to check in advance what is compatible, instead of the usual approach of buying first and then figuring out how to make it work together.

Or simply choose KNX, since everything is generally compatible there.

Patricck schrieb:

In my house construction so far, I have had no restrictions where anything was missing or not feasible.
Material costs about 16,000 EUR (about $17,000) and I have everything I need.

If it works for you, that’s great. Feel free to start a new thread and list what you have, and we can compare what it would have cost with KNX.

Patricck schrieb:

I have experience mixing manufacturers. As long as it works, great; if it doesn’t, you can’t count on manufacturer support—everyone blames someone else.

In which area? With KNX you have guaranteed interoperability and communication capability. You can’t just blame others there.