Hello everyone,
I am finally planning to build our own house with my family. I don’t want to do without a smart system and have already done some research.
Loxone is basically off the table for me because it mainly relies on its proprietary system and products.
Of course, I have repeatedly come back to KNX (as here in the forum as well). However, I am not entirely happy with it because I don’t want to have to call a programmer every time I want to make a change; I also don’t really want to buy the ETS license. Additionally, I want to integrate and network fingerprint scanners, Sonos, and a heat pump, but I haven’t fully figured out how to do this with KNX.
The house basically has two floors with an open-plan kitchen/living area, entrance hall, utility room, bathrooms, children’s rooms, bedroom, garden, and so on.
The following systems should be connected:
- Lighting (some dimmable)
- External blinds / weather station
- Underfloor heating
- Heat pump
- Music system (Sonos)
- Fingerprint access
- Video intercom
- Some switched power outlets
- Photovoltaic system
Since I am technically fairly knowledgeable, I want to be able to manage, adjust, and optimize my system myself in the end.
Does anyone have good input here? Or already experience with Loxone, KNX, or others?
Thanks and best regards,
Stefan
I am finally planning to build our own house with my family. I don’t want to do without a smart system and have already done some research.
Loxone is basically off the table for me because it mainly relies on its proprietary system and products.
Of course, I have repeatedly come back to KNX (as here in the forum as well). However, I am not entirely happy with it because I don’t want to have to call a programmer every time I want to make a change; I also don’t really want to buy the ETS license. Additionally, I want to integrate and network fingerprint scanners, Sonos, and a heat pump, but I haven’t fully figured out how to do this with KNX.
The house basically has two floors with an open-plan kitchen/living area, entrance hall, utility room, bathrooms, children’s rooms, bedroom, garden, and so on.
The following systems should be connected:
- Lighting (some dimmable)
- External blinds / weather station
- Underfloor heating
- Heat pump
- Music system (Sonos)
- Fingerprint access
- Video intercom
- Some switched power outlets
- Photovoltaic system
Since I am technically fairly knowledgeable, I want to be able to manage, adjust, and optimize my system myself in the end.
Does anyone have good input here? Or already experience with Loxone, KNX, or others?
Thanks and best regards,
Stefan
Patricck schrieb:
So what? And... Loxone costs more than KNX and offers less... so how can anyone still consider it as an option? Furthermore, the removal of the interface clearly shows where this is heading.
Patricck schrieb:
tree makes more sense Hmm, so a bus wiring system makes more sense than what Loxone otherwise offers. In other words, Loxone has finally realized after years what KNX has been doing for 30 years. Yes, we agree on that. Only that, for example, I would go straight for a bus system without detours. Why else? It’s just nonsense, and I, for one, don’t have money to waste.
Patricck schrieb:
but for private individuals who don’t know ETS, they need a programmer for every little thing. You definitely don’t need a programmer with KNX. Not at any time. Apparently, you have even less knowledge about it than initially assumed. I can only repeat myself:
Back to work and close the knowledge gaps...
What can Loxone not do that KNX can?
Tree wiring follows the same approach as KNX wiring.
And programming KNX must also be done with ETS.
Interestingly, Merten, Jung, and Busch-Jaeger also offer their own systems. There must be a reason for that.
How large does a home need to be to require 500 group addresses?
Tree wiring follows the same approach as KNX wiring.
And programming KNX must also be done with ETS.
Interestingly, Merten, Jung, and Busch-Jaeger also offer their own systems. There must be a reason for that.
How large does a home need to be to require 500 group addresses?
S
Steffen8020 Feb 2020 10:17Patricck schrieb:
Strangely, Merten, Jung, and Busch-Jaeger also offer their own systems. There must be a reason for that.
How large does a private home have to be to require 500 group addresses?The reason is simple – making money with "clicky-colorful" features.
Current status for us (with about 300m² (3,229 ft²) of living space): over 1700 group addresses, and I’m still not finished.
Patricck schrieb:
What can Loxone not do that KNX can? Simple wiring, rapid integration of a wide range of systems and manufacturers, interoperability, design, and so on... Loxone cannot do any of that.
Should I tell you about the Modbus issues with Loxone and updates after which certain functions suddenly disappear? None of that happens with KNX.
Patricck schrieb:
Tree wiring is the same approach as KNX wiring. Yes, exactly—it’s a bus system, just with more cables than KNX. And look, after 10 years they finally realized that a bus system is better. So why not use it from the start? This technology is not new.
As a customer, I wonder why I should choose a system that suddenly uses almost the same technology as another system that recognized it 30 years ago and has been offering and constantly improving it since then?
Patricck schrieb:
Strangely enough, Merten, Jung, Busch-Jaeger also offer their own systems. There must be a reason for that. Strangely, Apple offers several products for sale. Wouldn’t one iPhone model be enough?
That’s called a market economy and product diversification. This is how you attract new customers or retain existing ones by offering them something new.
Why use more wires? I also have 4 wires in the KNX cable.
The 2 wires with 1.5mm² (1.5 sq mm) are only needed for the spotlights, because they always require power, whether DALI, KNX, or Tree.
500 group addresses are enough; either I go with Loxone or KNX—mixing both doesn’t really make sense, and for a few actuators, that’s usually sufficient. Unless someone really insists on a KNX setup like a piano keyboard.
The 2 wires with 1.5mm² (1.5 sq mm) are only needed for the spotlights, because they always require power, whether DALI, KNX, or Tree.
500 group addresses are enough; either I go with Loxone or KNX—mixing both doesn’t really make sense, and for a few actuators, that’s usually sufficient. Unless someone really insists on a KNX setup like a piano keyboard.
Patricck schrieb:
How large does a house have to be to require 500 group addresses?I just felt like chiming in.
Right now, I have 928 group addresses in ETS. To answer your question: Our house is about 190m² (2,045 sq ft). I don’t mean to sound arrogant—quite the opposite. This just shows that the 500 group addresses limitation of Loxone is a bad joke.
I live about an hour’s drive from the Loxone headquarters. Because of the local connection, I was initially focused on Loxone as well. But I can only agree with the others here: there is no reason to choose it if there is KNX as an alternative, which is superior in almost every aspect.
How do you integrate a ventilation system into Loxone? An air conditioning system? Sonos? Philips Hue? With KNX, there are gateways for all those things.
If manufacturer X goes bankrupt or stops supporting KNX, I can simply switch to manufacturer Y or Z or whoever.
Edit: I’ll take a guess—you chose Loxone for your home?