Hello everyone,
I am finally planning to build our own house with my family. I don’t want to do without a smart system and have already done some research.
Loxone is basically off the table for me because it mainly relies on its proprietary system and products.
Of course, I have repeatedly come back to KNX (as here in the forum as well). However, I am not entirely happy with it because I don’t want to have to call a programmer every time I want to make a change; I also don’t really want to buy the ETS license. Additionally, I want to integrate and network fingerprint scanners, Sonos, and a heat pump, but I haven’t fully figured out how to do this with KNX.
The house basically has two floors with an open-plan kitchen/living area, entrance hall, utility room, bathrooms, children’s rooms, bedroom, garden, and so on.
The following systems should be connected:
- Lighting (some dimmable)
- External blinds / weather station
- Underfloor heating
- Heat pump
- Music system (Sonos)
- Fingerprint access
- Video intercom
- Some switched power outlets
- Photovoltaic system
Since I am technically fairly knowledgeable, I want to be able to manage, adjust, and optimize my system myself in the end.
Does anyone have good input here? Or already experience with Loxone, KNX, or others?
Thanks and best regards,
Stefan
I am finally planning to build our own house with my family. I don’t want to do without a smart system and have already done some research.
Loxone is basically off the table for me because it mainly relies on its proprietary system and products.
Of course, I have repeatedly come back to KNX (as here in the forum as well). However, I am not entirely happy with it because I don’t want to have to call a programmer every time I want to make a change; I also don’t really want to buy the ETS license. Additionally, I want to integrate and network fingerprint scanners, Sonos, and a heat pump, but I haven’t fully figured out how to do this with KNX.
The house basically has two floors with an open-plan kitchen/living area, entrance hall, utility room, bathrooms, children’s rooms, bedroom, garden, and so on.
The following systems should be connected:
- Lighting (some dimmable)
- External blinds / weather station
- Underfloor heating
- Heat pump
- Music system (Sonos)
- Fingerprint access
- Video intercom
- Some switched power outlets
- Photovoltaic system
Since I am technically fairly knowledgeable, I want to be able to manage, adjust, and optimize my system myself in the end.
Does anyone have good input here? Or already experience with Loxone, KNX, or others?
Thanks and best regards,
Stefan
I have now taken a look at the networking section.
Overall, the components are of very high quality, but at around €300 per double outlet, it is the most expensive I have seen here so far. What is missing from the quote is the empty conduit for the network cables. Is it not included, listed elsewhere, or is this going to be another project where cable replaceability is neglected?
The offer includes 10 double outlets. Are there no single outlets planned in or near the ceiling for WLAN access points?
Overall, the components are of very high quality, but at around €300 per double outlet, it is the most expensive I have seen here so far. What is missing from the quote is the empty conduit for the network cables. Is it not included, listed elsewhere, or is this going to be another project where cable replaceability is neglected?
The offer includes 10 double outlets. Are there no single outlets planned in or near the ceiling for WLAN access points?
hanse987 schrieb:
I have now taken a closer look at the network section.
Basically, the components are very high quality, but at around €300 (about $320) per dual outlet, it’s the most expensive one I’ve seen here so far. What I can’t find in the quote is the empty conduit for the network cables. Is it missing, listed elsewhere, or is this going to be another project where cable replaceability is not considered?
There are 10 dual outlets in the quote. Are there no single outlets planned in or near the ceiling for Wi-Fi access points? Yes, single outlets will be installed centrally on the ground floor and first floor for access points, but not on the ceiling—rather near the floor, and then a cabinet or similar will be placed in front of them. These are not yet included in the quote.
The empty conduits can be found under items 2) Cable routing systems and 3) Flush-mounted installation cable routing.
How do you arrive at “€300 per dual outlet”?
I have reviewed this now, but I’m not an expert, so I won’t make any comments regarding the cable measurements or IT/SAT systems.
Also, I noticed that one page (the one with the smart touch displays and the shading programming) appears twice. Are other pages missing instead?
It’s not so simple; floor plans would also help to get an overall picture of what’s involved.
Why do you need so many single and double push buttons?
If I’m counting correctly, you have a total of 25 single and 21 double push buttons. That alone amounts to 4,500€ net.
Then there are 11 Jung room controllers for 3,700€ net and 2 touch displays for 1,650€ net. I understand those, but the push buttons mentioned above (single/double) make me suspect that this setup is only loosely related to smart home functions and is mainly designed as a conventional KNX installation.
On the other hand, you have just 2 motion detectors planned for the entire house.
What about the 3 continuous dimmers? What are they supposed to be used for?
What about window contacts?
Have you thought about how this will be managed in the future if you want something reprogrammed?
Is the electrician supposed to come each time at a high cost?
I don’t find the 1,800€ for programming unreasonable, but I would recommend that you learn the system yourself and take over the programming. That way, you can make changes anytime you want—and you will want to.
That will cost you about 800€ for the ETS software and quite some time, but in return, you’ll know exactly how things work going forward.
You could also order all the KNX devices outside of the distribution board yourself. They operate on low voltage and can be installed by you.
If you do the programming yourself anyway, you’ll probably save quite a bit.
Did you select the Jung room controllers yourselves? I’m just asking because there are more affordable alternatives available.
Also, I noticed that one page (the one with the smart touch displays and the shading programming) appears twice. Are other pages missing instead?
It’s not so simple; floor plans would also help to get an overall picture of what’s involved.
Why do you need so many single and double push buttons?
If I’m counting correctly, you have a total of 25 single and 21 double push buttons. That alone amounts to 4,500€ net.
Then there are 11 Jung room controllers for 3,700€ net and 2 touch displays for 1,650€ net. I understand those, but the push buttons mentioned above (single/double) make me suspect that this setup is only loosely related to smart home functions and is mainly designed as a conventional KNX installation.
On the other hand, you have just 2 motion detectors planned for the entire house.
What about the 3 continuous dimmers? What are they supposed to be used for?
What about window contacts?
Have you thought about how this will be managed in the future if you want something reprogrammed?
Is the electrician supposed to come each time at a high cost?
I don’t find the 1,800€ for programming unreasonable, but I would recommend that you learn the system yourself and take over the programming. That way, you can make changes anytime you want—and you will want to.
That will cost you about 800€ for the ETS software and quite some time, but in return, you’ll know exactly how things work going forward.
You could also order all the KNX devices outside of the distribution board yourself. They operate on low voltage and can be installed by you.
If you do the programming yourself anyway, you’ll probably save quite a bit.
Did you select the Jung room controllers yourselves? I’m just asking because there are more affordable alternatives available.
matte1987 schrieb:
I reviewed it now, but I’m not an expert, so I won’t comment on the cable dimensions or IT/SAT systems.
Also, I noticed that one page (the one with the smart touch displays and shading control programming) appears twice. Are other pages missing?
It’s not that simple; floor plans would help to see how everything fits together.
Why do you have so many single and double push buttons?
If I’m counting right, you have a total of 25 single and 21 double push buttons. Those alone cost around €4,500 net.
Then there are 11 Jung room controllers for €3,700 net and the 2 touch displays for €1,650 net. I understand those, but the push buttons you mentioned (single/double) make me think this setup has little to do with smart home and is just conventional KNX thinking.
On the other hand, you only planned 2 motion detectors for the entire house.
What about the 3 continuous controllers? What are they supposed to be used for?
What about window contacts?
Have you thought about how this will work in the future if you want to reprogram something?
Will you have to call an electrician every time, which will be expensive?
I don’t find the €1,800 for programming unreasonable, but I would recommend that you learn it yourself and take over the programming. That way, you can make changes at any time if you get new ideas. And you will.
It will cost you about €800 for the ETS software and a lot of time, but then you will know how things work.
You could also buy all the KNX devices outside the control cabinet yourself. They operate at low voltage and can be installed by you.
If you program yourself, you can probably save quite a bit.
Did you choose the Jung room controllers yourselves? I’m only asking because there are cheaper alternatives. Everything brand-related currently in the plan was suggested by our electrician. We reviewed this offer yesterday (together with the floor plan) and refined it — tomorrow we will go through the individual items in the offer again.
We left window contacts out for now.
I don’t know what the continuous controllers are for.
We reduced the number of push buttons a bit yesterday but wanted to keep intuitive control, e.g., not control the children’s rooms only with the room controllers.
Motion detectors are obviously not unique to KNX, right?
Unfortunately, due to work, I can’t invest time into learning the programming right now. But I intend to put it on my to-do list for the future.
Attached are the floor plans.