ᐅ Neighbors startled by the building structure. Has anyone experienced this before?
Created on: 7 May 2018 21:36
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NeuerNachbar
Have you ever experienced this? A long-standing empty lot gets developed, and suddenly the neighbors are upset because the new building blocks their sunlight, obstructs their view, or causes other disturbances. It’s quite common to get used to an empty space over many years. But who has gone through this, and how did you handle it?
We also have a neighbor who is quite unhappy about our building project. Until now, it was just green space, and he never expected anything to be built there (he could have bought the strip himself to ensure no construction, but that was too expensive).
In the years before, he often complained that the green strip wasn’t well maintained (my mother, now 78 years old, simply couldn’t manage it, and we haven’t always been around), but now that a house is being built there, he doesn’t like it at all! Which I can basically understand; of course, a well-maintained green view by others is probably more pleasant than a house.
From my experience in Bavaria, I can say how neighbor signatures work: you should collect the neighbors’ signatures as this speeds up the building permit/planning permission process, because then the building authority doesn’t have to deal with it anymore. We arranged several appointments with the neighbor, and he didn’t show up to any of them. Eventually, we submitted the building application without his signature.
After that, the neighbor is notified by the building authority about the application and can request to review the plans and, if applicable, object to the project if current regulations (such as setback requirements, valid development plans, etc.) are violated. Simply disliking the project is not sufficient—even in Bavaria, that is not allowed. There is a deadline for such objections (either 2 or 4 weeks, I’m not exactly sure). If no objection is raised by then, it is implicitly approved.
For example, we have the local utility company as a neighbor (since there is a small electrical substation and the surrounding land belongs to them). The building authority informs them as well, and if such an institution does not raise objections, that is taken as approval.
We took almost two years to complete our building application (the municipality resisted until the very end, even though the district building authority had already approved the permit). So, for us, the two- to four-week deadline was no longer a critical factor. Probably faster than if we had kept knocking on the neighbor’s door repeatedly only to find it locked.
As I said, I basically understand that he’s not thrilled about us building there, but that’s life. Throughout Bavaria, efforts are being made to reduce land consumption by increasing density in existing areas. So, we are trendsetters.
The plot has a slight slope; originally, we planned to build at the neighbor’s level and add one or two steps to connect to the existing building (my mother’s house). He asked us to keep as much distance as possible from his property (he himself built only 3m (10 feet) from the property line and left plenty of space in front). We didn’t have a lot of room to move, but we redesigned the house so that it now connects to my mother’s garage. However, this could only be done by building at the height of the existing house, which means we have to compensate for the difference to the neighbor’s plot with a retaining wall or L-shaped concrete blocks. This moved us 60cm (23 inches) farther away from him, but requires support.
Does he like that better? We don’t know because when we tried to meet him to discuss these changes (with a prior appointment), he was never there. I doubt he even reviewed the plans when the district authority asked him to. So this will probably come as a surprise...
Nevertheless, we will still try to maintain a good relationship with our neighbor, and he and his family will of course be invited to the housewarming party. We also hope that time will help—for everyone to get used to the new situation.
By the way, this is the part of his garden he hardly ever uses. So he won’t have our house right in front of him while grilling, sitting outside, or relaxing, but only when mowing the lawn. That should make getting used to it easier.
In the years before, he often complained that the green strip wasn’t well maintained (my mother, now 78 years old, simply couldn’t manage it, and we haven’t always been around), but now that a house is being built there, he doesn’t like it at all! Which I can basically understand; of course, a well-maintained green view by others is probably more pleasant than a house.
From my experience in Bavaria, I can say how neighbor signatures work: you should collect the neighbors’ signatures as this speeds up the building permit/planning permission process, because then the building authority doesn’t have to deal with it anymore. We arranged several appointments with the neighbor, and he didn’t show up to any of them. Eventually, we submitted the building application without his signature.
After that, the neighbor is notified by the building authority about the application and can request to review the plans and, if applicable, object to the project if current regulations (such as setback requirements, valid development plans, etc.) are violated. Simply disliking the project is not sufficient—even in Bavaria, that is not allowed. There is a deadline for such objections (either 2 or 4 weeks, I’m not exactly sure). If no objection is raised by then, it is implicitly approved.
For example, we have the local utility company as a neighbor (since there is a small electrical substation and the surrounding land belongs to them). The building authority informs them as well, and if such an institution does not raise objections, that is taken as approval.
We took almost two years to complete our building application (the municipality resisted until the very end, even though the district building authority had already approved the permit). So, for us, the two- to four-week deadline was no longer a critical factor. Probably faster than if we had kept knocking on the neighbor’s door repeatedly only to find it locked.
As I said, I basically understand that he’s not thrilled about us building there, but that’s life. Throughout Bavaria, efforts are being made to reduce land consumption by increasing density in existing areas. So, we are trendsetters.
The plot has a slight slope; originally, we planned to build at the neighbor’s level and add one or two steps to connect to the existing building (my mother’s house). He asked us to keep as much distance as possible from his property (he himself built only 3m (10 feet) from the property line and left plenty of space in front). We didn’t have a lot of room to move, but we redesigned the house so that it now connects to my mother’s garage. However, this could only be done by building at the height of the existing house, which means we have to compensate for the difference to the neighbor’s plot with a retaining wall or L-shaped concrete blocks. This moved us 60cm (23 inches) farther away from him, but requires support.
Does he like that better? We don’t know because when we tried to meet him to discuss these changes (with a prior appointment), he was never there. I doubt he even reviewed the plans when the district authority asked him to. So this will probably come as a surprise...
Nevertheless, we will still try to maintain a good relationship with our neighbor, and he and his family will of course be invited to the housewarming party. We also hope that time will help—for everyone to get used to the new situation.
By the way, this is the part of his garden he hardly ever uses. So he won’t have our house right in front of him while grilling, sitting outside, or relaxing, but only when mowing the lawn. That should make getting used to it easier.
Climbee schrieb:
But I can report directly from Bavaria how the neighbor’s signature is handled: you should obtain the neighbors’ signatures, as this speeds up the process because then the building authority doesn’t have to deal with it anymore. [...] Then the neighbor is informed by the building authority about the building application and can request to review the application and plans, and if applicable, object to the construction project if applicable laws are violated (setback requirements, applicable development plan, etc.). I’m starting to really doubt whether there’s any consistent procedure at all regarding building applications/permits [emoji6] In our case, or rather with our neighbors, it was actually different. Although it’s in Franconia, it formally belongs to Bavaria [emoji6]
At some point, we received a letter from the district office (LRA) concerning the enforcement of building regulations (for our neighbor). Included was a sort of legal notice, stating that objections could be filed within four weeks (I hope I remember correctly). Therefore, it shouldn’t matter at all to the district office whether the neighbors’ signatures were given or not. So it’s irrelevant in terms of processing time. The fact that this is probably the case is shown by comparing our building permit with that of our neighbors. We had gathered all the signatures, they hadn’t. The processing time was exactly the same in both cases, down to the day.
By the way, it was also not the case that the district office always informs neighbors. For example, our neighbors were not informed, and neither were we about the building project of another neighbor who "accidentally" miscalculated setback distances. All three building permits were issued through the district office, after some development plan requirements couldn’t be met. Somehow, the usual practice seems unpredictable [emoji6]
Waiting two years for a building permit really requires strong nerves and patience. Respect for that [emoji1303]
In any case, a good preparation for dealing with particular neighbors [emoji4]
They have a rather complicated process in Bavaria with all the signature paperwork. Is it like that elsewhere?
In Schleswig-Holstein, you always submit your application to the district through the municipality—that’s the official procedure. If there is a zoning plan, the building permit is assessed based on that, which is straightforward and takes about 14 days. If it’s under section 34, it becomes more of a negotiation. But even then, the basics are checked: height, distances, floor area ratio. Holiday apartment? Or not?
The neighbor is never involved. Why would they be? If it’s legal, there’s nothing they can do; if it’s not legal, it’s not allowed, even if the neighbor agrees.
Here there is someone, of course an outsider, rumored to be from Düsseldorf—Düsseldorf, terrible, beer poisoning—who always caused construction stops because something didn’t suit him, like lack of sunlight or something else. The district building authority has now put him in his place with the quietly whispered phrase that they scrutinize everything from people from Düsseldorf very thoroughly and don’t turn a blind eye even a little... now he is peaceful. There’s nothing like the souls of Holstein civil servants. Karsten
In Schleswig-Holstein, you always submit your application to the district through the municipality—that’s the official procedure. If there is a zoning plan, the building permit is assessed based on that, which is straightforward and takes about 14 days. If it’s under section 34, it becomes more of a negotiation. But even then, the basics are checked: height, distances, floor area ratio. Holiday apartment? Or not?
The neighbor is never involved. Why would they be? If it’s legal, there’s nothing they can do; if it’s not legal, it’s not allowed, even if the neighbor agrees.
Here there is someone, of course an outsider, rumored to be from Düsseldorf—Düsseldorf, terrible, beer poisoning—who always caused construction stops because something didn’t suit him, like lack of sunlight or something else. The district building authority has now put him in his place with the quietly whispered phrase that they scrutinize everything from people from Düsseldorf very thoroughly and don’t turn a blind eye even a little... now he is peaceful. There’s nothing like the souls of Holstein civil servants. Karsten
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Caspar202015 May 2018 15:47Helau! At least we’re top-notch again.
And there’s also delicious Killepitsch.
And there’s also delicious Killepitsch.
Perhaps the idea behind this is to start a conversation with your future neighbor. As mentioned, you can submit the building permit / planning permission application without any signatures from the neighbors, and the process will proceed accordingly.
However, in the interest of good future neighbor relations, I personally think it’s a good idea to introduce yourself to everyone beforehand and explain your construction plans. If there is something that the neighbor strongly objects to, you might be able to show some willingness to compromise through direct communication, which can lead to a better start from the very beginning.
However, in the interest of good future neighbor relations, I personally think it’s a good idea to introduce yourself to everyone beforehand and explain your construction plans. If there is something that the neighbor strongly objects to, you might be able to show some willingness to compromise through direct communication, which can lead to a better start from the very beginning.
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