ᐅ Long processing times at the design office – time to consider changing?
Created on: 22 Mar 2022 21:23
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ed_2022
Hello everyone,
In October, following a recommendation, we approached an engineering firm. We received a reasonably good offer for the conceptual design phase and the subsequent service phases up to the detailed design.
After a thorough discussion with the structural engineer assigned to us, during which we also provided sketches of our ideas, we had to wait about two months for the first draft. This draft was only prepared after several follow-ups and was sent to us shortly before the end of the year. Unfortunately, the design did not meet many of the agreed requirements at all (the desired basement was completely missing, rooms were located in entirely different places than requested, and so on).
So far, we are on the fourth version of our conceptual design. Adjusting our requested changes always takes several weeks, and essential points from the discussed modifications are repeatedly missing. The drafts continue to arrive only after multiple phone calls.
We hope that the next draft will finally complete the conceptual design phase. Now we are wondering whether it still makes sense to continue working with this firm or if it would be better to change firms for the building permit/planning permission, detailed design, structural calculations, and related services.
Overall, this situation is very frustrating for us, as our construction start has already been postponed from May to September, and we are now considering delaying it to early 2023. Meanwhile, other issues are increasingly falling behind. For example, I would like to finalize the construction financing soon due to rising interest rates. However, the banks require detailed cost breakdowns by trade and project descriptions, for which we still depend on our engineering firm. Unfortunately, they are only sporadically reachable to discuss these matters. (My last email asking whether the cost breakdown could be prepared has gone unanswered for two weeks, and by phone I only reach colleagues who cannot assist me.)
Do you think it still makes sense to look for a different design firm for the remaining service phases, or would that likely push our construction start even further back?
In October, following a recommendation, we approached an engineering firm. We received a reasonably good offer for the conceptual design phase and the subsequent service phases up to the detailed design.
After a thorough discussion with the structural engineer assigned to us, during which we also provided sketches of our ideas, we had to wait about two months for the first draft. This draft was only prepared after several follow-ups and was sent to us shortly before the end of the year. Unfortunately, the design did not meet many of the agreed requirements at all (the desired basement was completely missing, rooms were located in entirely different places than requested, and so on).
So far, we are on the fourth version of our conceptual design. Adjusting our requested changes always takes several weeks, and essential points from the discussed modifications are repeatedly missing. The drafts continue to arrive only after multiple phone calls.
We hope that the next draft will finally complete the conceptual design phase. Now we are wondering whether it still makes sense to continue working with this firm or if it would be better to change firms for the building permit/planning permission, detailed design, structural calculations, and related services.
Overall, this situation is very frustrating for us, as our construction start has already been postponed from May to September, and we are now considering delaying it to early 2023. Meanwhile, other issues are increasingly falling behind. For example, I would like to finalize the construction financing soon due to rising interest rates. However, the banks require detailed cost breakdowns by trade and project descriptions, for which we still depend on our engineering firm. Unfortunately, they are only sporadically reachable to discuss these matters. (My last email asking whether the cost breakdown could be prepared has gone unanswered for two weeks, and by phone I only reach colleagues who cannot assist me.)
Do you think it still makes sense to look for a different design firm for the remaining service phases, or would that likely push our construction start even further back?
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Fuchsbau3522 Mar 2022 22:36Unfortunately, I can’t help you due to my lack of experience. We are building with a general contractor, so everything was either already planned or quickly adjusted according to our wishes.
But to be honest, I am a bit shocked at how long things are taking on your side. People should also realize that quite a bit depends on the progress of your designs, not just the interest rates. I also find the slow communication rather strange.
I wonder if there aren’t any binding deadlines for completion specified in a contract with the architect or engineer?
But to be honest, I am a bit shocked at how long things are taking on your side. People should also realize that quite a bit depends on the progress of your designs, not just the interest rates. I also find the slow communication rather strange.
I wonder if there aren’t any binding deadlines for completion specified in a contract with the architect or engineer?
I find six months with an external office acceptable. However, it is unprofessional that the desired basement, etc., was not taken into account. Either it is a company that is not paying attention and deserves no more than 2 out of 5 stars, or it is worth 5 stars because, considering the budget mentioned and several other factors, it has already delivered an optimal plan. The question is whether you want to approve something impossible… That’s the only way to communicate such things, of course.
ed_2022 schrieb:
Rooms were in completely different locations than requested, and so on.)
ed_2022 schrieb:
Essential points from the discussed changes are still missing again and again.
ed_2022 schrieb:
In October, following a recommendation, we approached an engineering firm. We received a fairly reasonable offer for the conceptual design and the subsequent service phases up to the construction documentation. [...]
So far, we are on the fourth draft of our conceptual design. Adjusting our requested changes takes several weeks each time, and key points of the agreed-upon modifications are repeatedly missing. The drafts only arrive after multiple follow-up calls.
We are now hoping that the next draft will finally complete the conceptual design phase. I don’t share your optimism. What did you do to the people who recommended such a lousy company?
It seems to me that "a fairly reasonable offer" here means a "cheap option" combined with "fee-level sloppiness," and the "responsible structural engineer" assigned to you is the overburdened assistant for low-budget clients:
ed_2022 schrieb:
After a thorough discussion with the assigned structural engineer, during which we had already submitted sketches reflecting our ideas, we had to wait about two months for the first draft. This was only created after several follow-up inquiries and was sent to us shortly before the end of the year. Unfortunately, the design failed to meet many of the discussed requirements (the requested basement was completely missing, rooms were located in entirely different places than requested, etc.) A construction documentation in which such significant elements are missing or incorrect will be unusable. I can already imagine how the tradespeople will have to work from inconsistent plans, with the electrical panel ending up in the guest room and the basement stairs arranged opposite from those between the ground and first floors.
I think you are spending too much time calling and emailing, and you are dealing mostly with administrative staff rather than your actual contractual counterpart. However, we do not know your contract—what services it covers, deadlines for delivery, and so on—so perhaps you have no other option but to hope for the best.
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soneva201223 Mar 2022 00:00For comparison…
We are also building with a small civil engineering office and started in August. We had an initial rough sketch from the architect, and then the civil engineer took over the planning. We received the first cost estimate within a month based on the sketch. The building permit / planning permission was granted before Christmas. The tender process is ongoing, and the major tasks – excavation, shell construction, windows – have been awarded. The excavators will start in April. We are in daily contact with the civil engineer to ensure everything progresses and decisions are made.
Honestly, I would change. In almost six months, you haven’t achieved much and that’s just the beginning! Not answering emails and no one picking up the phone would be a deal-breaker for me.
We are also building with a small civil engineering office and started in August. We had an initial rough sketch from the architect, and then the civil engineer took over the planning. We received the first cost estimate within a month based on the sketch. The building permit / planning permission was granted before Christmas. The tender process is ongoing, and the major tasks – excavation, shell construction, windows – have been awarded. The excavators will start in April. We are in daily contact with the civil engineer to ensure everything progresses and decisions are made.
Honestly, I would change. In almost six months, you haven’t achieved much and that’s just the beginning! Not answering emails and no one picking up the phone would be a deal-breaker for me.
We are also working with an architectural firm, and based on your descriptions, I wouldn’t feel confident.
Our first draft after the needs assessment meeting took about 4 weeks as well. However, communication took place throughout, and we were informed beforehand that due to holiday periods, it might take 1-2 weeks longer. After that, everything was handled within a few days to a week. When I call and don’t get through immediately, someone who can provide information always calls back within a few hours.
During the design phase, this might still be acceptable, but just imagine when it comes to tendering, awarding contracts, selecting materials, and so on... For example, we had a meeting with the heating and plumbing contractors to discuss the layout of the bathrooms. During the meeting, we talked through changes that were important to us. After sleeping on it over the weekend, we informed them on Monday that we wanted it done differently, and by Wednesday the updated construction plans were ready.
Questions come up quite frequently in between, whether about construction financing, the kitchen, scheduling, or other matters. As a client, I expect responses within a reasonable timeframe.
Our first draft after the needs assessment meeting took about 4 weeks as well. However, communication took place throughout, and we were informed beforehand that due to holiday periods, it might take 1-2 weeks longer. After that, everything was handled within a few days to a week. When I call and don’t get through immediately, someone who can provide information always calls back within a few hours.
During the design phase, this might still be acceptable, but just imagine when it comes to tendering, awarding contracts, selecting materials, and so on... For example, we had a meeting with the heating and plumbing contractors to discuss the layout of the bathrooms. During the meeting, we talked through changes that were important to us. After sleeping on it over the weekend, we informed them on Monday that we wanted it done differently, and by Wednesday the updated construction plans were ready.
Questions come up quite frequently in between, whether about construction financing, the kitchen, scheduling, or other matters. As a client, I expect responses within a reasonable timeframe.
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