Hello everyone,
I have a small problem at the moment.
My house has four gutters.
Two of them are connected, and the other two are just decorative covers.
The foundation slab of my house is equipped with a grounding rod.
After the house was assembled, these rods were sticking out of the ground at each corner.
Out of ignorance, I cut off three of them, so now I only have one left that can be connected to the gutter.
Is that sufficient?
Is a single connection enough for lightning protection?
Normally, there are two downspouts installed on a house.
Are both usually connected?
Best regards
I have a small problem at the moment.
My house has four gutters.
Two of them are connected, and the other two are just decorative covers.
The foundation slab of my house is equipped with a grounding rod.
After the house was assembled, these rods were sticking out of the ground at each corner.
Out of ignorance, I cut off three of them, so now I only have one left that can be connected to the gutter.
Is that sufficient?
Is a single connection enough for lightning protection?
Normally, there are two downspouts installed on a house.
Are both usually connected?
Best regards
M
meister keks1 Jul 2017 22:51Ah, okay.
What exactly is the equipotential bonding?
I already live here, and my electrical system has passed inspection, and my satellite system was installed by the electrician.
So everything should already be grounded.
Why were there steel wires at every corner of the house? What is the purpose of them sticking out like that?
What is HAR?
I don’t have an external lightning protection system.
After reading this, it absolutely doesn’t make sense to ground the gutters.
What exactly is the equipotential bonding?
I already live here, and my electrical system has passed inspection, and my satellite system was installed by the electrician.
So everything should already be grounded.
Why were there steel wires at every corner of the house? What is the purpose of them sticking out like that?
What is HAR?
I don’t have an external lightning protection system.
After reading this, it absolutely doesn’t make sense to ground the gutters.
Yes, you understood correctly: without an external system, you can leave the gutters as they are.
HAR = house connection room
The flags were positioned at four corners possibly because the electrician in charge did not know the exact location of the HAR...(just a guess)
Equipotential bonding is the technical term for the grounding of the house. It does not protect against lightning strikes, but is required according to IEC 60364-4-41:2005 and, for Germany, DIN VDE 0100-410:2007-06.
HAR = house connection room
The flags were positioned at four corners possibly because the electrician in charge did not know the exact location of the HAR...(just a guess)
Equipotential bonding is the technical term for the grounding of the house. It does not protect against lightning strikes, but is required according to IEC 60364-4-41:2005 and, for Germany, DIN VDE 0100-410:2007-06.
M
meister keks2 Jul 2017 05:50Thank you for your information.
Our electrician specified the following:
- a continuous grounding conductor around the foundation, as well as one running across the slab (so that half-circle shapes are formed from the aforementioned ring conductor)
- a conductor connected to the central grounding terminal (CGT) for the internal building grounding
- at each corner of the house, a conductor to allow the installation of an external lightning rod if needed (currently not planned, so this is just a preparation)
From other (older) houses I’m familiar with (from what I’ve seen), at least two steel straps from the lightning rod on the roof are connected to such conductors.
Whether connecting to the gutter is useful or possible, I cannot assess.
If the original poster does have a lightning rod on the roof, I think one connection is not enough; if they don’t have one, cutting it off is probably irrelevant.
- a continuous grounding conductor around the foundation, as well as one running across the slab (so that half-circle shapes are formed from the aforementioned ring conductor)
- a conductor connected to the central grounding terminal (CGT) for the internal building grounding
- at each corner of the house, a conductor to allow the installation of an external lightning rod if needed (currently not planned, so this is just a preparation)
From other (older) houses I’m familiar with (from what I’ve seen), at least two steel straps from the lightning rod on the roof are connected to such conductors.
Whether connecting to the gutter is useful or possible, I cannot assess.
If the original poster does have a lightning rod on the roof, I think one connection is not enough; if they don’t have one, cutting it off is probably irrelevant.
Meister keks schrieb:
Is a single connection sufficient for lightning protection? Lightning protection is, by definition, the sum of all measures, divided into external and internal lightning protection. Equating lightning protection solely with a lightning protection system has long been outdated.
The internationally harmonized lightning protection standards series IEC 62305, the German classification DIN EN 62305 (VDE 0185-305), and in Austria the nearly identical ÖVE-EN 62305 (except for the national foreword) apply only to buildings equipped with lightning protection systems.
Conventional lightning protection systems must have at least two down conductors; having only one would not comply with the standard.
Knallkörper schrieb:
The effect of grounded gutters is likely minimal. However, I would say they should be connected directly to the foundation earth electrode. The integration of gutters and the base of downpipes is mandatory in lightning protection systems, but otherwise optional.
Knallkörper schrieb:
If you insist on grounding your downpipes now but can no longer reach the clamps, you could instead drive a grounding rod into the ground at each location. Beware of material pairing to avoid galvanic corrosion. Separate grounding electrodes contradict the basic principle of equipotential bonding entirely and are both dangerous and non-compliant with standards. According to even older ABB regulations, these were only allowed under strict limitations exclusively for lightning protection systems, and have always been prohibited for antennas.
Providing downpipes with their own grounding rods is less dangerous than pointless.
Mycraft schrieb:
Yes, you understood correctly; without an external system, you can leave the gutters as they are. Agreed, since “external system” refers to external lightning protection.
Mycraft schrieb:
Equipotential bonding is the technical term for house grounding. I disagree!
Since I have my “house standards” at hand, I will quote the official terms according to IEC:
[QUOTE=DIN EN 60728-11 VDE 0855-1):2011-06]
3 Terms, Symbols, and Abbreviations
3.1.8 Earthing system
The combination of electrical connections and devices used for earthing a network, installation, or piece of equipment.
[IEC 60050-195:1998, 195-02-20]
3.1.10 Earth electrode
A conductive part embedded in the earth or another conductive medium, such as concrete or coke, which is in electrical contact with the earth.
[IEC 60050-826:2004, 826-13-05]
3.1.13 Equipotential bonding
The process of creating electrical connections between conductive parts to achieve equal potential.
[IEC 60050-826:2004, 826-12-01][/QUOTE]
K
Knallkörper4 Jul 2017 01:06Dipol schrieb:
Separate earth electrodes completely contradict the basic principle of protective equipotential bonding and are dangerous and non-compliant with standards.Non-compliant perhaps. I naturally assume that there is no lightning protection system in the proper sense. Dangerous, probably not—so what would be the physical explanation? A downpipe cannot be compared to two electrical devices that do not share the same potential.
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