Dear forum,
we are currently planning the construction of our single-family house. Last week, I created an initial draft for the lighting and electrical installation, which I would like to share here for discussion.
Do you think I should reduce the number of recessed ceiling lights? Are the power outlets sufficient? I look forward to your comments!
we are currently planning the construction of our single-family house. Last week, I created an initial draft for the lighting and electrical installation, which I would like to share here for discussion.
Do you think I should reduce the number of recessed ceiling lights? Are the power outlets sufficient? I look forward to your comments!
Hendrik198010 May 2021 11:54K1300S schrieb:
Ah, okay, but that doesn’t change anything, because for basic KNX and future upgrades, you need to have all the cables installed from the start. Similarly, installing things like window contacts later on isn’t very straightforward, so it’s better to install (and use) them right away. I think budgeting around 50,000 euros for KNX in a house of this size, including the network, is a reasonable estimate. From that, you might deduct 5,000 to a maximum of 10,000 euros for advanced features, but not much more.Why wouldn’t that change anything? I would save on the standard electrical installation then, right?
It really depends on what you have in mind. The term "necessary" can be interpreted in many different ways.
What makes sense is everything you are likely to want and cannot add later on without significant additional costs. But if I look at our situation, for example, the window contacts alone cost around 5,000 euros (about $5,400), which is definitely not a small amount.
This doesn’t change the fact that you need to decide NOW whether you want KNX or not. If yes, you probably have to invest more than 50 percent of the total costs upfront to avoid paying two or three times as much later. Exactly how much that sum will be, of course, depends on your personal definition of "necessary."
Take a look here in the forum. @Tarnari has shared a detailed report about their KNX setup: https://www.hausbau-forum.de/threads/knx-installation-im-efh-ratlosigkeit.32644/
What makes sense is everything you are likely to want and cannot add later on without significant additional costs. But if I look at our situation, for example, the window contacts alone cost around 5,000 euros (about $5,400), which is definitely not a small amount.
This doesn’t change the fact that you need to decide NOW whether you want KNX or not. If yes, you probably have to invest more than 50 percent of the total costs upfront to avoid paying two or three times as much later. Exactly how much that sum will be, of course, depends on your personal definition of "necessary."
Take a look here in the forum. @Tarnari has shared a detailed report about their KNX setup: https://www.hausbau-forum.de/threads/knx-installation-im-efh-ratlosigkeit.32644/
A
AllThumbs10 May 2021 11:58Hendrik1980 schrieb:
Why doesn't it change anything? I would just skip the standard electrical installation, right?He probably meant that even if you plan to expand a basic KNX system later, you still need central wiring. You might need fewer actuators if you want to control and monitor less, but you can’t retrofit anything without cables. Unless you rely more on decentralized actuators, which won’t be particularly cost-effective either.Edit: I was too late
What you need right from the start are the following things:
- Star wiring with 5x1.5 mm² (5x0.003 sq in) cables and bus connections ideally at every corner, each outlet combination, and every conceivable location where something will be measured, reported, or switched—also in the attic, in the heating control units, and outside/carport/shed/pool/garden in general/pathways.
- Door/window contacts—these simply cannot be ignored, as they are needed for alarm systems and various logic functions and actions, for example, presence/absence detection.
- Stationary tablets/control panels at least prepared for future installation in case a visualization interface is added somewhere later, and possibly for an intercom system.
- Lighting concept for indoor/outdoor lighting. This determines the number of required cables and possibly additional systems for lighting control.
- Multimedia outlets/wiring (projectors, multi-channel audio, multiroom setups, etc.)
- LAN/WLAN
- Possibly satellite cable wiring.
- Even if it can be retrofitted later, install it now anyway: Weather station.
- Possibly leak detection and sensors on water pipes for future logic/scenes.
That’s basically it... the rest can be retrofitted more or less easily or many functions are already included if you install a presence detector or a touch sensor somewhere.
You can avoid overwhelming amounts of switches and outlets, which helps keep costs more or less neutral.
If you even have the option to increase your budget to around 30,000 (currency not specified), I don’t see any problems. It doesn’t always have to be top-tier brands like Basalte or GIRA. Zennio or Lingg & Janke will do as well.
- Star wiring with 5x1.5 mm² (5x0.003 sq in) cables and bus connections ideally at every corner, each outlet combination, and every conceivable location where something will be measured, reported, or switched—also in the attic, in the heating control units, and outside/carport/shed/pool/garden in general/pathways.
- Door/window contacts—these simply cannot be ignored, as they are needed for alarm systems and various logic functions and actions, for example, presence/absence detection.
- Stationary tablets/control panels at least prepared for future installation in case a visualization interface is added somewhere later, and possibly for an intercom system.
- Lighting concept for indoor/outdoor lighting. This determines the number of required cables and possibly additional systems for lighting control.
- Multimedia outlets/wiring (projectors, multi-channel audio, multiroom setups, etc.)
- LAN/WLAN
- Possibly satellite cable wiring.
- Even if it can be retrofitted later, install it now anyway: Weather station.
- Possibly leak detection and sensors on water pipes for future logic/scenes.
That’s basically it... the rest can be retrofitted more or less easily or many functions are already included if you install a presence detector or a touch sensor somewhere.
You can avoid overwhelming amounts of switches and outlets, which helps keep costs more or less neutral.
If you even have the option to increase your budget to around 30,000 (currency not specified), I don’t see any problems. It doesn’t always have to be top-tier brands like Basalte or GIRA. Zennio or Lingg & Janke will do as well.
Hendrik198010 May 2021 21:11AllThumbs schrieb:
Take a look here in the forum. @Tarnari has provided a fairly detailed report on his KNX system setup: https://www.hausbau-forum.de/threads/knx-installation-im-efh-ratlosigkeit.32644/Thanks for the tip! That already helps a lot! But 60,000 is obviously a whole different ballpark.
Hendrik198010 May 2021 21:12Mycraft schrieb:
What you need right from the start are the following things:
- Star wiring in 5x1.5 mm² (5x1.5 mm²) and bus wiring wherever possible at every corner, every socket combination, and any conceivable spot where something should be measured/reported/switched, etc., so also in the attic, in the central heating stations (HKVs), and also outside/carport/shed/pool/garden in general/paths.
- Door/window contacts – these simply can’t be overlooked; they are necessary for alarm systems and various logic functions and actions, e.g., presence/absence detection.
- Stationary tablets/control panels at least prepared for installation, in case visualization is added somewhere later and possibly an intercom system (TKS).
- Indoor/outdoor lighting concept. This then determines the number of required cables and possibly other lighting systems.
- Multimedia sockets/wiring (projector, multi-channel sound, multiroom, etc.)
- LAN/WLAN
- Possibly satellite cabling
- Even though it can be retrofitted, it’s best to include a weather station from the beginning.
- Possibly leak detection and sensors on water pipes for future logic/scenes.
That’s basically it... the rest can be retrofitted more or less easily, or many functions are already included if you add a push-button module or a touch sensor somewhere.
Avoiding an excess of switches and sockets can help keep costs more balanced.
If you even have the option to increase your budget to 30k (30,000) I don’t see any problems at all. It doesn’t always have to be Basalte or GIRA equipment. Zennio or Lingg&Janke also work fine.Many thanks! That certainly sounds like a solid framework. But do you really think 30k (30,000) is realistic?
What are HKVs and TKS?