ᐅ Kitchen Planning for Renovation: Question About Window and Appliances

Created on: 10 Sep 2023 01:47

Hello everyone,
as part of our house building planning (see: https://www.hausbau-forum.de/threads/grundriss-neubau-auf-bungalow-bestandskeller-1-5-geschossige.44686/) we are currently focusing on the kitchen.

On the ground floor (see floor plans https://www.hausbau-forum.de/threads/grundriss-neubau-auf-bungalow-bestandskeller-1-5-geschossige.44686/post-631246) we are planning a kitchen wall unit plus a cooking island. We already received a quote from a kitchen studio for this. We removed 3-4 wall cabinets in our subsequent SH3D self-planning (see attachment), but the offer still roughly fits:

- induction cooktop + recirculation hood: Bora PURU (~2300€)
- oven: AEG BPK435060M (~850€)
- dishwasher: Siemens SX63H800BE (720€)
- side-by-side refrigerator, chairs, dining table not included
- base cabinets with drawers/pull-outs
- cooking island 2.1 x 1.2m (7ft x 4ft) with cutout for a column (structurally necessary)
- including installation, 5-year warranty
- 23,000€ (estimated about 21,500€ with the current design and fewer wall cabinets)

Overall, we are happy with the design: We have plenty of space, lots of storage, and easy workflows ...
Nevertheless, we have a few questions and would appreciate if anyone could support us here:

Does anyone have experience (positive or negative) with the mentioned electrical appliances?
Could it make sense to remove the appliances from the offer? The installation of appliances purchased separately by the kitchen studio costs 85€ per appliance, but then the 5-year warranty is lost. The advantage: I have a wider selection of brands (for example, cooktops are only offered by Bora and Neff) and if lucky, you might get a good deal.
We would like a large window above the sink (1km (0.62 miles) clear view of greenery in that direction). Ideally, this window would be uninterrupted by a mullion. With the size we have in mind, it will be difficult to realize such a window with an opening tilt or swivel function. So it will probably be fixed glazing. Do you see the missing ventilation function as a critical issue? Although a controlled ventilation system is planned, there is still quite a bit of steam generated right at the sink. Additionally, the seating window at the top left of the plan will also be fixed glazed...
For ergonomic reasons, we have placed the dishwasher at a raised height. Because of this, it is very close to the bench/seating window area. We fear that loading the dishwasher will cause a lot of dripping (for example, when placing not completely empty coffee cups upside down in the upper rack) and that the upholstery/cushions/surfaces of the bench below will suffer. Does anyone have experience with the “dripping” risk around raised dishwashers?
Do you consider the quoted price reasonable?
Are there any general tips or suggestions for improvement regarding room layout, ergonomics, or design...?

Thank you very much!

Modern kitchen with cooking island, three orange bar stools, wooden column and table in the foreground.

Open floor plan: kitchen with island and dining table, adjacent living room in the plan

3D kitchen with island, cooktop and bar stools next to dining area in open floor plan

motorradsilke11 Sep 2023 23:33

#25

Mal Bauen schrieb:

Not yet, we’ve had the plans since Friday and have been experimenting with them over the weekend. That will be the next step.

Personally, I find it easier to overlook asymmetry, but the consensus here in the forum leans towards more visual calmness. We’ll see if we can find a compromise.

As for the tall cabinets above the window—we haven’t really warmed up to them despite the nicer look.
If they are placed at a reachable height (bottom edge below 170cm (67 inches)), the window glass minus the window tape and frame reaches up to about 160cm (63 inches). That means there is a beam directly in front of my eyes, and I would be looking diagonally down into the greenery. To see the horizon or a bit of sky, I’d have to bend down, which I’d find unfortunate. Even though it looks great in the nice renderings and online pictures (thanks @Bertram100!), I believe it would bother us.
If we make the window larger instead, the upper cabinets would shift up to over 200cm (79 inches). That still allows me to open the door and reach a bit at the front edge, but without a step stool, I wouldn’t get much more out.

The kitchen has to please YOU, not the people here. Everyone has different tastes. I actually prefer your current design to the original one. It’s more open and lively. I don’t like those full walls that are common right now. With your view, it would be a real shame to hang cabinets there.

ypg12 Sep 2023 00:17

#26

motorradsilke schrieb:

The kitchen has to please YOU, not the people here.

But that wasn’t the original poster’s question. If you justify all logical errors, many questions here become pointless. You’re not really helping the original poster by saying “if you like it.”

So if the view to the east is so great that you want to enjoy it, the solution is not placing bar stools 3 meters (10 feet) away just to get a glimpse of the view between (what was it?) the soda maker and the electric kettle, but rather to position the seating window there. (For the kids in the south, it’s anyway finished.)

@Mal Bauen
Maybe you could suggest to the designer to put the seating window on the east side, and a small window for the sink on the south side of the kitchen… then perhaps (I don’t have time to sketch this right now) a practical and well-functioning kitchen will result that also appeals to you.

motorradsilke12 Sep 2023 06:46

#27

ypg schrieb:

But that wasn’t the OP’s question. If you sugarcoat all the flawed reasoning, many questions here become unnecessary. Saying “if you like it” doesn’t really help the OP.
So, if the view to the east is so great that you want to enjoy it, the solution is not to place bar stools 3 meters (10 feet) away and try to catch a glimpse of the view from between (what was it?) the Sodastream and the kettle, but rather to put a seating window there. (The one in the south for the kids is pretty much pointless anyway.)
@Mal Bauen
Maybe you could suggest to the planner to place the seating window on the east side and a small window above the kitchen sink on the south side... then you might get a practical and well-functioning kitchen that you also like.

The floor plan has actually been finalized for months if you check the related post.
Don’t you have any windows in the house where you can look out from a distance of 3 meters (10 feet)? Even after two years, I still enjoy the view through our large windows into the garden when I’m working at the countertop. I don’t just stare at the work surface while working at home. Take a look at Kati1337’s post, there’s also that wonderful big window by the sink with a nice view.
I encourage the OP to consider THEIR own workflows and habits before making a decision.

ypg12 Sep 2023 12:50

#28

motorradsilke schrieb:

The floor plan has actually been finished for months,

And now the original poster wants to discuss the kitchen. The OP is asking, among other things, for improvement suggestions—not for opinions on taste or who likes it or not.

So you provide options, ideas, and suggestions that the OP will likely consider more seriously than someone who is not in their situation or who cannot or does not want to put themselves in their shoes.

motorradsilke schrieb:

Don’t you look out the window anywhere in the house from a distance of 3 meters (10 feet)? I still enjoy (even after 2 years) the view through our large windows into the garden,

Of course! But I’m not going to sit on the most uncomfortable furniture in the world for that 😉 That’s why I suggested considering a seating window to the east. See post #26.

motorradsilke schrieb:

Take a look at Kati1337’s place… with the beautiful view.

Currently still a rather poor example 😉 Comparing a tall white neighboring house to meadow views.. 😉 But I am optimistic for Kati once the garden is done… although this doesn’t relate much to the kitchen planning here.

Mal Bauen12 Sep 2023 22:21

#29

ypg schrieb:

Sorry… people don’t sit on bar stools to look out of a window located 2-3 meters (6.5-10 feet) away from the stools. And nobody stands in the kitchen staring outside. Maybe during the construction phase, but not as part of everyday life and routine.

In our current apartment, the kitchen window is actually the most used one, despite a somewhat dreary view and a much smaller size. I think habits just vary.

ypg schrieb:

Maybe you could suggest to the designer to have a window seat facing east and a small window above the kitchen sink on the south side.

We have also considered placing the window seat on that side. In the middle it would be inconvenient, as it would interfere too much with the workflow. So better on the sides. There, we could align the window reveal flush with the adjacent wall, which would allow us to easily create more of a “backrest.” Placing it on the left, with the kitchen directly to the right and around the corner (as you suggested), would probably work best in connection with the kitchen. But then the window would be quite far from the island, dining table, and somewhat pushed into the “back corner” of the open living area. If we place the window seat on the right, it works better on its own (view, sight lines). However, the kitchen would then be “further away” and possibly less practical. These considerations have so far prevented us from putting the window seat on the east side.
We will discuss this again with the designer.

ypg12 Sep 2023 22:31

#30

Mal Bauen schrieb:

But then the window is very far from the block, the dining table, and somewhat pushed into the “back corner” of the open-plan living area.

So, it is not meant to replace the sink window. That could be planned on the south side.
Is the utility room door fixed there? Is there no alternative?

ᐅ Kitchen Planning for Renovation: Question About Window and Appliances

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