Hello, we plan to start building our own home this year.
I already have two active discussion threads on this forum about it.
https://www.hausbau-forum.de/threads/Hausbau-kfw70-ca-150m-welche-Heizung-Gas-lwwp.12261/
https://www.hausbau-forum.de/threads/wir-wollen-bauen-ist-das-was-uns-angeboten-wird-so-i-o.12269/
We just got back from discussing the offer with the supplier.
I tried to talk about heating and ventilation; he shared his experiences, opinions, and advice.
This didn’t quite match what I had read so far, so now I’m uncertain and confused again.
We requested a 150m² (1,615 sq ft) solid house built to KFW 70 standard.
This is achieved through insulation and a gas-solar heating system. More details are in my other threads.
When I asked about a mechanical ventilation system with heat recovery, he said it’s not needed, that regular airing is sufficient.
He also said his son built a KFW 70 house with gas-solar three years ago and that he would never do that again. Better to build without KFW 70, save the money for the energy certificate inspection and the solar system (about 5,000), keep the insulation as is, and move on. Apparently, it’s not financially worthwhile.
Regarding the wall construction, another supplier told me the following:
Me: Is there an air gap between the insulation on the masonry and the facing brick?
He: Yes, of course, we don’t list that separately because it’s required by DIN (German industrial standards).
Today, with our current supplier:
Me: Is there an air gap between the insulation on the masonry and the facing brick?
He: No, that’s a cavity insulation. That might have been necessary in the past, but with today’s insulation materials, it’s no longer needed.
So what is correct? Is an air gap between the insulation and masonry required by DIN, or does it depend on which insulation material is used?
I already have two active discussion threads on this forum about it.
https://www.hausbau-forum.de/threads/Hausbau-kfw70-ca-150m-welche-Heizung-Gas-lwwp.12261/
https://www.hausbau-forum.de/threads/wir-wollen-bauen-ist-das-was-uns-angeboten-wird-so-i-o.12269/
We just got back from discussing the offer with the supplier.
I tried to talk about heating and ventilation; he shared his experiences, opinions, and advice.
This didn’t quite match what I had read so far, so now I’m uncertain and confused again.
We requested a 150m² (1,615 sq ft) solid house built to KFW 70 standard.
This is achieved through insulation and a gas-solar heating system. More details are in my other threads.
When I asked about a mechanical ventilation system with heat recovery, he said it’s not needed, that regular airing is sufficient.
He also said his son built a KFW 70 house with gas-solar three years ago and that he would never do that again. Better to build without KFW 70, save the money for the energy certificate inspection and the solar system (about 5,000), keep the insulation as is, and move on. Apparently, it’s not financially worthwhile.
Regarding the wall construction, another supplier told me the following:
Me: Is there an air gap between the insulation on the masonry and the facing brick?
He: Yes, of course, we don’t list that separately because it’s required by DIN (German industrial standards).
Today, with our current supplier:
Me: Is there an air gap between the insulation on the masonry and the facing brick?
He: No, that’s a cavity insulation. That might have been necessary in the past, but with today’s insulation materials, it’s no longer needed.
So what is correct? Is an air gap between the insulation and masonry required by DIN, or does it depend on which insulation material is used?
D
Doc.Schnaggls21 Apr 2015 13:15Well, with a gas heating system, I would carefully calculate the cost of the solar thermal panels and how much gas I could save by letting the sun heat the water almost entirely in summer and partially in winter.
However, this can usually only be done individually by an energy or heating consultant, as many specific factors (orientation, roof pitch, average hours of sunlight, etc.) need to be taken into account in this calculation.
However, this can usually only be done individually by an energy or heating consultant, as many specific factors (orientation, roof pitch, average hours of sunlight, etc.) need to be taken into account in this calculation.
L
LittleWulf21 Apr 2015 13:54OK, I also think that we will need this "heating calculation" to make a well-informed decision based on sufficient facts.
So, it means we will probably have to inform the provider that we have chosen them. Until now, I have been holding back as long as possible so that "he" does not get too confident, thinking he has us hooked; catching up will then be a piece of cake.
So, it means we will probably have to inform the provider that we have chosen them. Until now, I have been holding back as long as possible so that "he" does not get too confident, thinking he has us hooked; catching up will then be a piece of cake.
What does your financial advisor have to do with the decision for KFW70?!
The financial benefit is a bit over €2,000 (approximately $2,100) – so not really significant financially. On top of that comes the increased resale value (in Germany, as you know, everything requires a certificate). A KFW assessor doesn’t really cost much for KFW70... especially since you want to build to that standard anyway.
By the way, you can roughly estimate your heating load calculation yourself if you know the standard you are building to.
The financial benefit is a bit over €2,000 (approximately $2,100) – so not really significant financially. On top of that comes the increased resale value (in Germany, as you know, everything requires a certificate). A KFW assessor doesn’t really cost much for KFW70... especially since you want to build to that standard anyway.
By the way, you can roughly estimate your heating load calculation yourself if you know the standard you are building to.
L
LittleWulf21 Apr 2015 21:00We wanted to find out if building to KFW70 standard would affect our financing, and I actually see more disadvantages because of the 10-year fixed interest rate. Our financial advisor neither discouraged nor recommended it. He also mentioned the 2,000 EUR difference, and based on what he told us, I made my decision.
What I am building now still needs to be finalized in detail, especially regarding the type of boiler and whether I want it or not. But it will be without KFW70 subsidies and an energy consultant, since I can always have those done later if I want to sell the house in 20 years. In the village where we are building, the house will never fetch a good price anyway.
What I am building now still needs to be finalized in detail, especially regarding the type of boiler and whether I want it or not. But it will be without KFW70 subsidies and an energy consultant, since I can always have those done later if I want to sell the house in 20 years. In the village where we are building, the house will never fetch a good price anyway.
However, you get 0.85% instead of approximately 1.5% on 50,000 euros and can even use the difference to pay down the principal (okay, that is somewhat negligible). But sure – I can understand your consideration regarding the fixed interest period – it would just be a pity if you don’t go for it due to reservations about the KFW system.
L
LittleWulf21 Apr 2015 22:30I had to look up "ressentiments" first ^^.
No, it’s not really a grudge, but simply a personal view that it doesn’t align with our financing plan. We have two home savings contracts that are both half funded, but we only take the saved amounts from each because the conditions are unfavorable. In the end, we’re looking at an 84% mortgage with a 20-year fixed rate, which just gave me construction-related anxiety about what to do with the remaining 36,000 after 10 years.
Is it possible, for example, that after 10 years I can get certification from KfW based on the building date’s standards, or do I have to meet the current KfW70 standard (2025)?
No, it’s not really a grudge, but simply a personal view that it doesn’t align with our financing plan. We have two home savings contracts that are both half funded, but we only take the saved amounts from each because the conditions are unfavorable. In the end, we’re looking at an 84% mortgage with a 20-year fixed rate, which just gave me construction-related anxiety about what to do with the remaining 36,000 after 10 years.
Is it possible, for example, that after 10 years I can get certification from KfW based on the building date’s standards, or do I have to meet the current KfW70 standard (2025)?
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