ᐅ Is the soundproofing on the ground floor of a condominium sufficient?
Created on: 20 Aug 2018 11:38
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Iceweasel
Hello everyone, we are currently considering purchasing a new condominium from a developer. Since the apartment is located on the ground floor next to the main entrance door, stairwell, and elevator, we are wondering whether the sound insulation will be adequate. Additionally, the bedrooms face a side street that seems quiet. The building specifications include the following information regarding sound insulation:
The building is designed and constructed in compliance with the requirements of DIN 4109 Sound Insulation in Building Construction, edition 1989.
Sound insulation between different, unrelated units, between apartments and the stairwell, as well as against external noise, follows the recommendations for enhanced sound insulation according to DIN 4109, Supplement 2, Table 2, and the specifications of DIN 4109 Tables 8 and 9 (external noise) during planning and execution. However, deviating from these requirements, no enclosed corridor within the apartments is provided.
The maximum sound reduction rating (Rw, R) for the apartment entrance doors in the installed condition is 37 dB.
Specific sound insulation within the apartment according to VDI 4100 and DIN 4109 Supplement 2 is explicitly not agreed upon. The sound pressure levels from technical building services (especially the elevator) in living rooms, bedrooms, workrooms, and open kitchens are considered according to VDI 4100, August 2007 edition, Table 2, Sound Insulation Level II (SIL II), i.e., <30 dB(A).
We look forward to your opinions.
The building is designed and constructed in compliance with the requirements of DIN 4109 Sound Insulation in Building Construction, edition 1989.
Sound insulation between different, unrelated units, between apartments and the stairwell, as well as against external noise, follows the recommendations for enhanced sound insulation according to DIN 4109, Supplement 2, Table 2, and the specifications of DIN 4109 Tables 8 and 9 (external noise) during planning and execution. However, deviating from these requirements, no enclosed corridor within the apartments is provided.
The maximum sound reduction rating (Rw, R) for the apartment entrance doors in the installed condition is 37 dB.
Specific sound insulation within the apartment according to VDI 4100 and DIN 4109 Supplement 2 is explicitly not agreed upon. The sound pressure levels from technical building services (especially the elevator) in living rooms, bedrooms, workrooms, and open kitchens are considered according to VDI 4100, August 2007 edition, Table 2, Sound Insulation Level II (SIL II), i.e., <30 dB(A).
We look forward to your opinions.
I
Iceweasel21 Aug 2018 08:19Thank you for your responses. As I had suspected, the sound insulation measures listed in the construction description seem quite modest. This is somewhat surprising since the developer is relatively large and experienced. In our area of Cologne, several completed apartments by this developer already exist.
Since it is very difficult to find a perfectly fitting apartment in Cologne, and this apartment is nearly ideal in terms of layout and location, we will try to discuss possible upgrades or special requests to improve the sound insulation with the developer. I have researched this topic, and it should be possible to enhance soundproofing through special doors, windows, etc.
Regarding the fire doors, the construction description states the following:
Fire doors in the basement and underground parking garage cannot meet sound insulation requirements due to structural reasons, as compliance with fire protection regulations takes priority. Fire doors in the basement and underground parking garage will be equipped with overhead door closers.
I have just noticed that the handover of the common property is conducted by the expert service provider TÜV Süd, according to the developer’s website. Could this be a positive sign regarding the quality of the apartment?
We look forward to your opinions.
Since it is very difficult to find a perfectly fitting apartment in Cologne, and this apartment is nearly ideal in terms of layout and location, we will try to discuss possible upgrades or special requests to improve the sound insulation with the developer. I have researched this topic, and it should be possible to enhance soundproofing through special doors, windows, etc.
Regarding the fire doors, the construction description states the following:
Fire doors in the basement and underground parking garage cannot meet sound insulation requirements due to structural reasons, as compliance with fire protection regulations takes priority. Fire doors in the basement and underground parking garage will be equipped with overhead door closers.
I have just noticed that the handover of the common property is conducted by the expert service provider TÜV Süd, according to the developer’s website. Could this be a positive sign regarding the quality of the apartment?
We look forward to your opinions.
HilfeHilfe schrieb:
I’m not buying a condominium for XXXk knowing full well that the noise will bother me Again: why should the owner care about a lower level of “sound insulation” if they don’t use the property themselves? As long as the return on investment is right.
Iceweasel schrieb:
we will try to discuss possible upgrades or special requests to improve the sound insulation with the developer. That won’t help you for the separating elements: wall construction, ceiling construction, floor structure, layouts, quality and execution of construction joints, building services engineering (BSE) and how it is installed in the building envelope… windows and doors won’t make much difference—especially not against impact sound—if the overall acoustic concept is not consistent.
Iceweasel schrieb:
for structural reasons no sound insulation can be ensured contradicts
Iceweasel schrieb:
The sound pressure levels from noise generated by building services systems (especially elevators) in living, sleeping, and work rooms as well as open kitchens are considered according to VDI 4100, August 2007 edition, Table 2, sound insulation level II (SSt II), i.e. <30 dB (A).I would strongly recommend clarifying this if you still intend to invest money in a newly built condominium in 2018 that only meets the legally required minimum noise emission limits. The current standard practice for construction has been significantly higher for well over a decade.
Iceweasel schrieb:
Acceptance of the common property by the expert service provider TÜV Süd will take place. Should this be a good sign regarding the quality of the apartment? According to which evaluation criteria is this inspected? And what exactly?
Iceweasel schrieb:
I just noticed on the developer’s website that the inspection of the common property is carried out by the expert service TÜV Süd. Could this be a good sign regarding the quality of the apartment?
We look forward to your opinions.The acceptance of the common property is, from a construction law perspective, one of the most complex issues to deal with... and it often involves serious hidden defects.
All declarations of division and purchase agreements are, in this respect, usually inadequate...
1. The purchasers, not the expert, officially accept the common property. This applies even when TÜV is involved. So, this is essentially just a reassuring but ineffective measure.
2. The only legally sound approach is if the so-called “pre-purchase community” – since the homeowners’ association as a legal entity does not yet exist at the time of acceptance of the common property – agrees in advance (!) on an independent expert. This must be done well before the first homeowners’ meeting and also incurs costs. You should budget an additional 2,000 to 3,000 euros for a lawyer’s review of the contractual situation. The expert then issues a technical acceptance RECOMMENDATION only. The future owners may then possibly follow this when they legally declare acceptance.
3. Professionals are needed here — specialized lawyers in construction and property owners’ association law. Usually, acceptance goes smoothly but not always. An example from legal practice: a basement garage developed buoyancy problems due to groundwater... acceptance was refused, the developer filed a lawsuit to enforce acceptance. This resulted in costs and years of legal proceedings...
4. Acceptance has significant consequences — especially the reversal of the burden of proof, which one must be fully aware of.
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HilfeHilfe22 Aug 2018 06:02Iceweasel schrieb:
Thank you very much for your responses. As I feared, the soundproofing measures described in the building specifications seem rather minimal. This is surprising considering the developer is quite large and experienced. In our area of Cologne, there are already several completed apartments from this developer.
Since it is very difficult to find a perfectly suitable apartment in Cologne, and this apartment is almost ideal in terms of layout and location, we will try to discuss possible upgrades or special requests to improve the sound insulation with the developer. I have researched this topic, and it should be possible to increase soundproofing through special doors, windows, and so on.
Regarding fire doors, the building specifications state the following:
Fire doors in the basement and underground garage cannot meet soundproofing requirements due to structural reasons, since complying with fire safety regulations takes priority. Fire doors in the basement and underground garage will be equipped with overhead door closers.
I just noticed on the developer’s website that the acceptance of common property is carried out by the expert service provider TÜV Süd. Could this be a good sign regarding the quality of the apartment?
We look forward to your opinions.And that’s how developers hook their next nervous buyer.
No wonder why buildings aren’t constructed properly.
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