ᐅ Is the knee wall height too low? What exactly does the measurement refer to?
Created on: 9 Jan 2018 20:59
3
305er
Hello, we are about to take possession of our house.
Recently, we measured the knee wall height.
According to the contract, it was supposed to be 150cm (59 inches) finished.
However, these are all clear structural dimensions.
Of course, we didn’t think about that, and we were never informed.
Well, it’s too late now.
Our screed buildup on the upper floor is 12cm (5 inches).
So without flooring, the knee wall should actually be 138cm (54 inches).
Our site manager, who is supposed to be in charge but hasn’t delivered, agrees with me on this point.
(We have two site managers, but the second one doesn’t really have decision-making authority.)
However, we only have a 128cm (50 inches) knee wall.
The first site manager wanted to measure and provide information but never did.
The second site manager writes:
“The clear structural height is measured from the top of the raw floor slab to the bottom of the collar beam.
The knee wall height is correct as well because I checked that at the time. Here, the measurement is from the raw floor slab to the bottom of the rafter.
The drywall cladding must of course be deducted. For the sloped roof, this corresponds to about 9 to 10 cm (3.5 to 4 inches) vertically.
So 1.50 m (59 inches) - 0.09 m (4 inches) - 0.13 m (5 inches) for the screed (without covering) results in a dimension of 1.28 m (50 inches) or, with a 0.10 m (4 inches) suspension, a dimension of 1.27 m (50 inches).”
So here we differ exactly by 10cm (4 inches).
From my technical understanding (I also studied technical drawing during my training and learned assembly technology) the dimension in the plan is from the raw floor level to the "bend," meaning the start of the roof slope.
(Attachment)
After another email, the second site manager added:
“All specified dimensions always require the finished interior works to be deducted, such as plaster, screed, ceiling covering, door frames, etc.
A finished height is not indicated because, due to tolerances in structural work, deviations of up to 4 cm (1.5 inches) can occur.”
I then tried to explain again that the dimension data starts from the floor and has nothing to do with the ceiling.
Another reply from the site manager:
“Attached is an excerpt from the red-lined drawings where I marked the dimension chain for the clear structural height.
It clearly shows that the dimension chain refers to the wooden beam and not the cladding.
Why should the knee wall dimension suddenly refer to the finished ceiling when all other measurements relate back to the raw structure, except for the knee wall?
If you are still not satisfied with my explanation, you should contact the project planner, as I have nothing more to add.”
As I said, in my opinion, the plan clearly shows the drywall panels on the wall and ceiling.
And the measurement goes up to the transition (on the drywall panel).
I’m hoping for an independent expert opinion here.
Sorry for the long text.
Thank you
Recently, we measured the knee wall height.
According to the contract, it was supposed to be 150cm (59 inches) finished.
However, these are all clear structural dimensions.
Of course, we didn’t think about that, and we were never informed.
Well, it’s too late now.
Our screed buildup on the upper floor is 12cm (5 inches).
So without flooring, the knee wall should actually be 138cm (54 inches).
Our site manager, who is supposed to be in charge but hasn’t delivered, agrees with me on this point.
(We have two site managers, but the second one doesn’t really have decision-making authority.)
However, we only have a 128cm (50 inches) knee wall.
The first site manager wanted to measure and provide information but never did.
The second site manager writes:
“The clear structural height is measured from the top of the raw floor slab to the bottom of the collar beam.
The knee wall height is correct as well because I checked that at the time. Here, the measurement is from the raw floor slab to the bottom of the rafter.
The drywall cladding must of course be deducted. For the sloped roof, this corresponds to about 9 to 10 cm (3.5 to 4 inches) vertically.
So 1.50 m (59 inches) - 0.09 m (4 inches) - 0.13 m (5 inches) for the screed (without covering) results in a dimension of 1.28 m (50 inches) or, with a 0.10 m (4 inches) suspension, a dimension of 1.27 m (50 inches).”
So here we differ exactly by 10cm (4 inches).
From my technical understanding (I also studied technical drawing during my training and learned assembly technology) the dimension in the plan is from the raw floor level to the "bend," meaning the start of the roof slope.
(Attachment)
After another email, the second site manager added:
“All specified dimensions always require the finished interior works to be deducted, such as plaster, screed, ceiling covering, door frames, etc.
A finished height is not indicated because, due to tolerances in structural work, deviations of up to 4 cm (1.5 inches) can occur.”
I then tried to explain again that the dimension data starts from the floor and has nothing to do with the ceiling.
Another reply from the site manager:
“Attached is an excerpt from the red-lined drawings where I marked the dimension chain for the clear structural height.
It clearly shows that the dimension chain refers to the wooden beam and not the cladding.
Why should the knee wall dimension suddenly refer to the finished ceiling when all other measurements relate back to the raw structure, except for the knee wall?
If you are still not satisfied with my explanation, you should contact the project planner, as I have nothing more to add.”
As I said, in my opinion, the plan clearly shows the drywall panels on the wall and ceiling.
And the measurement goes up to the transition (on the drywall panel).
I’m hoping for an independent expert opinion here.
Sorry for the long text.
Thank you
Lumpi_LE schrieb:
The knee wall height is the raw wall height, so in your case it’s 1.25 meters (4 feet 1 inch). The 1.50 meter (4 feet 11 inches) measurement is meaningless... of course, you can insist on it, but then the dispute will start.I agree. If a knee wall height of 1.50 meters (4 feet 11 inches) is contractually agreed, as a layperson I would assume I can go ahead and buy furniture that is 1.50 meters (4 feet 11 inches) tall. Or is there now a situation with two knee wall heights—one shown on the building plan and one in reality?K
Knallkörper10 Jan 2018 08:53kbt09 schrieb:
But the 150 cm (59 inches) kneewall height in your drawing is about 50 cm (20 inches) inside the room. The kneewall height is indicated as 125 cm (49 inches) directly at the wall.No. The measurement, like the other one, is taken directly at the exterior wall.
In general, from my point of view, there is no clear and universally accepted definition of how to measure the kneewall. However, the drawing is unambiguous, so there is no room for misunderstanding.
According to the drawing, the kneewall heights are:
- 1.25 m (4.1 ft) kneewall measured between the top of the raw ceiling and the underside of the finished ceiling, which equals 1.38 m (4.5 ft) above the screed, or approximately 1.35 m (4.4 ft) in the "finished room" including floor covering
- 1.50 m (4.9 ft) kneewall measured between the top of the raw ceiling and the underside of the rafters
There is also the option to measure the kneewall between the raw ceiling and the top edge of the rafters, which would result in an even smaller kneewall height.
K
Knallkörper10 Jan 2018 08:54kaho674 schrieb:
I agree. If a knee wall of 1.50m (5 feet) is contractually agreed upon, as a layperson I would assume I can go ahead and buy furniture that is 1.50m (5 feet) tall. Or are there now two different knee walls – one shown on the building plan and one in reality?That would be nice and simple, but the definition of a knee wall is probably the furthest from reality.
Knallkörper schrieb:
That would be nice and simple, but the definition of knee wall is probably the furthest from reality. I understand that, and if I have a drawing like that, as the homeowner I have to be smart enough to read it. But if you want to buy a house tomorrow and the real estate agent tells you the knee wall is 1.50m (5 feet), you expect that 1.50m (5 feet) tall dwarfs could stand under it.
B
baumann4210 Jan 2018 09:18Knee wall height is measured as follows
baumann42 schrieb:
Kniestock wird so gemessen Exactly. But is that mandatory?
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