ᐅ Is the knee wall height too low? What exactly does the measurement refer to?
Created on: 9 Jan 2018 20:59
3
305er
Hello, we are about to take possession of our house.
Recently, we measured the knee wall height.
According to the contract, it was supposed to be 150cm (59 inches) finished.
However, these are all clear structural dimensions.
Of course, we didn’t think about that, and we were never informed.
Well, it’s too late now.
Our screed buildup on the upper floor is 12cm (5 inches).
So without flooring, the knee wall should actually be 138cm (54 inches).
Our site manager, who is supposed to be in charge but hasn’t delivered, agrees with me on this point.
(We have two site managers, but the second one doesn’t really have decision-making authority.)
However, we only have a 128cm (50 inches) knee wall.
The first site manager wanted to measure and provide information but never did.
The second site manager writes:
“The clear structural height is measured from the top of the raw floor slab to the bottom of the collar beam.
The knee wall height is correct as well because I checked that at the time. Here, the measurement is from the raw floor slab to the bottom of the rafter.
The drywall cladding must of course be deducted. For the sloped roof, this corresponds to about 9 to 10 cm (3.5 to 4 inches) vertically.
So 1.50 m (59 inches) - 0.09 m (4 inches) - 0.13 m (5 inches) for the screed (without covering) results in a dimension of 1.28 m (50 inches) or, with a 0.10 m (4 inches) suspension, a dimension of 1.27 m (50 inches).”
So here we differ exactly by 10cm (4 inches).
From my technical understanding (I also studied technical drawing during my training and learned assembly technology) the dimension in the plan is from the raw floor level to the "bend," meaning the start of the roof slope.
(Attachment)
After another email, the second site manager added:
“All specified dimensions always require the finished interior works to be deducted, such as plaster, screed, ceiling covering, door frames, etc.
A finished height is not indicated because, due to tolerances in structural work, deviations of up to 4 cm (1.5 inches) can occur.”
I then tried to explain again that the dimension data starts from the floor and has nothing to do with the ceiling.
Another reply from the site manager:
“Attached is an excerpt from the red-lined drawings where I marked the dimension chain for the clear structural height.
It clearly shows that the dimension chain refers to the wooden beam and not the cladding.
Why should the knee wall dimension suddenly refer to the finished ceiling when all other measurements relate back to the raw structure, except for the knee wall?
If you are still not satisfied with my explanation, you should contact the project planner, as I have nothing more to add.”
As I said, in my opinion, the plan clearly shows the drywall panels on the wall and ceiling.
And the measurement goes up to the transition (on the drywall panel).
I’m hoping for an independent expert opinion here.
Sorry for the long text.
Thank you
Recently, we measured the knee wall height.
According to the contract, it was supposed to be 150cm (59 inches) finished.
However, these are all clear structural dimensions.
Of course, we didn’t think about that, and we were never informed.
Well, it’s too late now.
Our screed buildup on the upper floor is 12cm (5 inches).
So without flooring, the knee wall should actually be 138cm (54 inches).
Our site manager, who is supposed to be in charge but hasn’t delivered, agrees with me on this point.
(We have two site managers, but the second one doesn’t really have decision-making authority.)
However, we only have a 128cm (50 inches) knee wall.
The first site manager wanted to measure and provide information but never did.
The second site manager writes:
“The clear structural height is measured from the top of the raw floor slab to the bottom of the collar beam.
The knee wall height is correct as well because I checked that at the time. Here, the measurement is from the raw floor slab to the bottom of the rafter.
The drywall cladding must of course be deducted. For the sloped roof, this corresponds to about 9 to 10 cm (3.5 to 4 inches) vertically.
So 1.50 m (59 inches) - 0.09 m (4 inches) - 0.13 m (5 inches) for the screed (without covering) results in a dimension of 1.28 m (50 inches) or, with a 0.10 m (4 inches) suspension, a dimension of 1.27 m (50 inches).”
So here we differ exactly by 10cm (4 inches).
From my technical understanding (I also studied technical drawing during my training and learned assembly technology) the dimension in the plan is from the raw floor level to the "bend," meaning the start of the roof slope.
(Attachment)
After another email, the second site manager added:
“All specified dimensions always require the finished interior works to be deducted, such as plaster, screed, ceiling covering, door frames, etc.
A finished height is not indicated because, due to tolerances in structural work, deviations of up to 4 cm (1.5 inches) can occur.”
I then tried to explain again that the dimension data starts from the floor and has nothing to do with the ceiling.
Another reply from the site manager:
“Attached is an excerpt from the red-lined drawings where I marked the dimension chain for the clear structural height.
It clearly shows that the dimension chain refers to the wooden beam and not the cladding.
Why should the knee wall dimension suddenly refer to the finished ceiling when all other measurements relate back to the raw structure, except for the knee wall?
If you are still not satisfied with my explanation, you should contact the project planner, as I have nothing more to add.”
As I said, in my opinion, the plan clearly shows the drywall panels on the wall and ceiling.
And the measurement goes up to the transition (on the drywall panel).
I’m hoping for an independent expert opinion here.
Sorry for the long text.
Thank you
305er schrieb:
(We have 2 site managers, although the second one doesn’t really have any real authority) Two of them – so that one doesn’t know what the other is doing, or to create a deadlock in technical matters?
But what is the actual question: who has “correctly” specified or understood which measurement, or is it about something practical (certain furniture no longer fits)?
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The question is, who is actually correct.
Whether the knee wall should be 138cm (54 inches) or 128cm (50 inches) as it is now.
@kbt09, but why? According to the drawing, the measurement clearly refers to the distance from the floor to the drywall panel, so only the screed should actually be subtracted from the 150cm (59 inches).
Two site managers because:
We have a contract with Company A (Seat) (Site Manager No. 2 and managing director of this company), which belongs to Company B (VW), who in turn cooperate with Company C to purchase materials at a better price.
At least, that's how it was explained to us.
In reality, Company C not only supplies materials but also provides the site manager (No. 1), subcontractors, and specifications regarding what is included in the house.
I can't really explain it well.
Whether the knee wall should be 138cm (54 inches) or 128cm (50 inches) as it is now.
@kbt09, but why? According to the drawing, the measurement clearly refers to the distance from the floor to the drywall panel, so only the screed should actually be subtracted from the 150cm (59 inches).
Two site managers because:
We have a contract with Company A (Seat) (Site Manager No. 2 and managing director of this company), which belongs to Company B (VW), who in turn cooperate with Company C to purchase materials at a better price.
At least, that's how it was explained to us.
In reality, Company C not only supplies materials but also provides the site manager (No. 1), subcontractors, and specifications regarding what is included in the house.
I can't really explain it well.
But the 150 cm (59 inches) knee wall height shown in your drawing is actually about 50 cm (20 inches) in the room. Directly at the wall, the knee wall height is indicated as 125 cm (49 inches).
kbt09 schrieb:That is a general statement. For that, you need to carefully review the specific drawings and construction descriptions.
The shell height is simply the shell height; for the clear room height, the floor and ceiling constructions are subtracted, and then you get the value.
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