ᐅ Is it possible to determine the deductible costs with a rough estimate?
Created on: 28 Mar 2017 14:06
M
mertmk3
Hello everyone,
Now that the land is almost definitely secured and we have had initial talks with architects, one of them appeals to us quite well. Only one question remains unclear: How high will the fee be? According to the architect, he will provide a detailed fee breakdown before each work package. However, this doesn’t help me because I need to know the approximate costs BEFORE commissioning in order to properly calculate the overall project budget. After using the HOAI calculators, I arrived at a fee of 61,000€ for a total sum of roughly 400,000€ despite the minimum rate! If that is really the case, I will quickly reconsider the idea of building with an architect. I assume that the 400,000€ total cost does not include all billable items and that I am probably making a mistake in calculating the fee. The question is: How can I estimate an architect’s fee based only on an approximate total amount without a detailed breakdown of the individual construction costs, so I can include it in my overall budget?
Can I ask the architect for a fee offer in advance, specifying what the fee would be based on the corresponding total amount?
Thanks for your advice!
Best regards
Martin
Now that the land is almost definitely secured and we have had initial talks with architects, one of them appeals to us quite well. Only one question remains unclear: How high will the fee be? According to the architect, he will provide a detailed fee breakdown before each work package. However, this doesn’t help me because I need to know the approximate costs BEFORE commissioning in order to properly calculate the overall project budget. After using the HOAI calculators, I arrived at a fee of 61,000€ for a total sum of roughly 400,000€ despite the minimum rate! If that is really the case, I will quickly reconsider the idea of building with an architect. I assume that the 400,000€ total cost does not include all billable items and that I am probably making a mistake in calculating the fee. The question is: How can I estimate an architect’s fee based only on an approximate total amount without a detailed breakdown of the individual construction costs, so I can include it in my overall budget?
Can I ask the architect for a fee offer in advance, specifying what the fee would be based on the corresponding total amount?
Thanks for your advice!
Best regards
Martin
S
Steffen8030 Mar 2017 16:16mertmk3 schrieb:
85,000 euros wants... sorry, I’m planning it myself. That’s a gross annual salary at a large company, even in Stuttgart.LOL... that’s quite a generalization. Hopefully, that’s for the cleaning staff.
Or why don’t you just do it yourself? Just calculate with 1x% and that’s it. It’s not much less anyway, and probably not much more either. If you don’t have that much flexibility in your budget... you’re in the wrong place with an architect.
S
Steffen8030 Mar 2017 16:21mertmk3 schrieb:
That was also my assumption until now, but so far, from the two architects I contacted, I only received an initial consultation and no further efforts to win me as a client. However, it was made clear that they would be happy to continue working with us, but this would already incur initial costs. For me as a client, just one meeting is too little effort in terms of client acquisition in a competitive environment.Nonsense... as a business owner, I don’t waste time endlessly either. Anyone who is skilled values their time! With me, there is a meeting and a brief assessment. After that, I want to see payment, or the client is free to move on.
Firstly, it’s not necessary, and secondly, an architect is a freelancer, not a business. The person only has their working hours to sell. You really have to pay attention to how much you do for free. Especially in this field, where half the world wants to build but only a few actually own land. You can’t just go to a freelancer for window shopping; they will quickly put an end to that.
I can only share what we expected from the architect before placing the order. A site visit to inspect the building to be demolished, an interior inspection of the renovation project, handing over scale-accurate copies of the plans, and a request for a rough sketch with pencil on these plans showing how the extension could look. Along with that, a rough estimate of the expected costs based on his concept. We did receive that. You obviously need to know what will be done and what it will cost before commissioning. Office A tried to sell us a BMW when we asked for an Opel. Office B listened to us.
Please, how else should it work? It is clear that without a fee, you cannot expect genuine planning. But what we expect is something that any general contractor provides. Every property developer does the same. Karsten
Please, how else should it work? It is clear that without a fee, you cannot expect genuine planning. But what we expect is something that any general contractor provides. Every property developer does the same. Karsten
Steffen80 schrieb:
LOL... that’s quite a generalization. Hopefully for the cleaning lady
Or why don’t you just do it yourself? Just calculate with 1x% and that’s it. It won’t be much less anyway, and probably not much more either. If you don’t have that much flexibility in your budget... you’re probably working with the wrong architect.There will surely be a cleaning lady here earning 85,000€ (about $91,000). However, I don’t think the average architect earns six figures. Otherwise, I really chose the wrong profession.
I don’t understand what’s wrong with expecting the maximum performance from a service provider.
@Alex85 We have the plot.
I’m pretty much with Karsten on this. The first of the two architects promised me a rough cost estimate by the weekend, so at least one of them seems to be working out. Next week, I will visit a third one.
We only had an initial free consultation with our planner to see if the chemistry was right. During this meeting, our wishes were already discussed in quite some detail, and we also clarified our budget. He explained how working with him would proceed, what services he would provide, and what he would not handle. He showed us some example projects he had designed—houses—to help us see if his style matched what we were looking for. We presented him with a floor plan (self-drawn) that we liked, and he roughly went over it with us, pointing out what he liked, what he might change, what wouldn’t work, and so on. He also offered some general advice about homebuilding. Furthermore, he provided a rough estimate of whether our desired house and budget would be compatible. The free initial consultation lasted more than 3 hours. Afterwards, he sent us a proposal for his fees via email, and we had to decide whether to continue working with him on a paid basis or not.
We found the initial consultation very insightful and informative, even though it only scratched the surface. We didn’t expect more at that stage. We did not receive a formal written cost estimate. To be safe, in the consultation, we set our budget somewhat lower than it actually is to leave a comfortable margin, so that when a detailed cost estimate is available later, we won’t face significant issues. No sketches or preliminary drafts were created. We never expected these from our planner during the free initial consultation; it was also completely fine with us that the free consultation was limited to one session and not extended by multiple additional free meetings. This was especially understandable given that we paid well below the HOAI fee scale. Naturally, more is not included under those conditions.
To reduce our risk in case it didn’t work out with him, we hired him in phases, initially agreeing only to the planning phase up to the building permit / planning permission stage, minimizing the financial risk. However, right from the start, we both had a good feeling and have not regretted it so far. On the contrary, he has exceeded our expectations.
We found the initial consultation very insightful and informative, even though it only scratched the surface. We didn’t expect more at that stage. We did not receive a formal written cost estimate. To be safe, in the consultation, we set our budget somewhat lower than it actually is to leave a comfortable margin, so that when a detailed cost estimate is available later, we won’t face significant issues. No sketches or preliminary drafts were created. We never expected these from our planner during the free initial consultation; it was also completely fine with us that the free consultation was limited to one session and not extended by multiple additional free meetings. This was especially understandable given that we paid well below the HOAI fee scale. Naturally, more is not included under those conditions.
To reduce our risk in case it didn’t work out with him, we hired him in phases, initially agreeing only to the planning phase up to the building permit / planning permission stage, minimizing the financial risk. However, right from the start, we both had a good feeling and have not regretted it so far. On the contrary, he has exceeded our expectations.
Similar topics