ᐅ Is it possible to change architects? What are the costs?
Created on: 1 May 2016 07:16
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Bauherrin2016
Dear forum community,
We are dissatisfied with the architect we initially chose and would like to change to a different one. But let me start from the beginning:
At the end of January, we selected an architect who is somewhat of a "freelance architect" (so not a general contractor or similar) but works independently under a limited company (GmbH). We verbally commissioned him initially for the tasks up to the approved building permit / planning permission. This was a verbal agreement; so far, we have not signed anything in writing. After the first meeting, the architect gave us a preliminary draft #link removed at the OP’s request; building expert. In a follow-up appointment, we addressed change requests and things we did not like, so the architect wanted to revise the floor plan accordingly. He then developed two new drafts for the ground floor (the upper floor remained unchanged), which were quite similar (just the living room and kitchen swapped places). This process took about seven weeks (and only sped up because we followed up—without our prompting, he probably still would not have responded) and the result was that these new drafts combined pretty much everything we said multiple times in detail that we DID NOT want. We assume he simply forgot everything after seven weeks since he hadn’t taken any notes during the meeting. Objectively, the drafts were just very poor; if I had shared them here in the forum, they would have been heavily criticized because there were many elements considered no-go’s. We were very frustrated to have effectively lost seven weeks for nothing, and the two second drafts were actually less suitable than the first. Yesterday, we had another meeting with the architect, explained everything again, and he roughly sketched some changes on the existing draft in our presence.
However, we felt he absolutely did not want to deviate from his original design, and the back-and-forth shifting of elements on the existing draft only made things worse (e.g., L-shaped utility room with a lot of unusable space). He barely or only partially addresses our change requests, so while the draft is somewhat closer to our wishes, it is far from something we would want to build. He absolutely refuses to change many things (the children’s rooms are too large for us, the bathroom too small with an awkward sanitary arrangement—for example, in the draft linked above the bathtub is positioned very awkwardly and tightly). However, he completely ignored our request to redesign the upper floor entirely. He is really holding onto the draft at all costs. He also refuses to change the staircase position, even after several requests to move it closer to the entrance; this was rejected with the explanation “It will make the entrance too tight.” That may be so, but then we simply need a completely new concept because we do not like it as it is. He won’t agree to that either. The exterior dimensions of the house seem fixed in his mind, even though I explained repeatedly that we would be fine increasing the size by a few centimeters (inches) if there were minor space issues. The elevations are awful and completely not the style we imagine for our house, and shifting the windows around does not improve things. I get the impression he already has the basic shape of this house ready in a drawer from a previous project and absolutely does not want to modify it because it would require more work. At least, that’s how it seems to us.
We are therefore completely dissatisfied; many aspects do not suit us, and working with the architect is a struggle. He only shifts walls on the existing draft and then claims everything is perfect. Every small change we want leads to a fight with him. This cannot continue—this floor plan is completely botched. We need a completely new concept, but he refuses to entertain that. We just don’t feel comfortable working with him anymore. I barely slept last night and get stomach aches just thinking about the floor plan. It can’t go on like this, and honestly, I see no further collaboration with this architect. The trust on our side is gone; we do not believe that continuing will ever result in a draft we like. He also subtly pressured us not to request several more preliminary drafts because then we supposedly wouldn’t know what we want anymore and so on...
In plain terms: we want to change the architect and end the collaboration with the current one. But how does this work? Is it that easy to terminate? And what costs can we expect for the current architect? All three drafts followed the style of the link posted above, meaning hand sketches without dimensions or similar. Does this still count as the preliminary design phase under HOAI (the German Fee Structure for Architects and Engineers) or is it already considered design planning? Does the architect charge according to HOAI even though he operates as a GmbH? Exact costs were not mentioned so far, only a rough estimate for the entire work up to submitting the building permit / planning application. It would be a shame if we have to pay a four-digit amount for this work, since it would be a lot of money for "nothing." But I just don’t see any continued cooperation with him, we’re no longer compatible personally or in terms of style and the floor plan. What would you do? Spend a lot of money for "nothing" and look for a new architect, or stick with this one and try to force a good draft through persistence and discussions? Although I doubt that would work, since he does not see many of the criticisms we raised (for example, the arrangement of sanitary fixtures in the bathroom feels very cramped, and we do not like the bathtub placement, or the size of the children's rooms—potentially reducing their size by relocating the office upstairs; we currently plan for one child but want two bedrooms because you never know if a second child might be desired later, but the rooms don’t need to be that large).
Many thanks in advance for any advice!
We are dissatisfied with the architect we initially chose and would like to change to a different one. But let me start from the beginning:
At the end of January, we selected an architect who is somewhat of a "freelance architect" (so not a general contractor or similar) but works independently under a limited company (GmbH). We verbally commissioned him initially for the tasks up to the approved building permit / planning permission. This was a verbal agreement; so far, we have not signed anything in writing. After the first meeting, the architect gave us a preliminary draft #link removed at the OP’s request; building expert. In a follow-up appointment, we addressed change requests and things we did not like, so the architect wanted to revise the floor plan accordingly. He then developed two new drafts for the ground floor (the upper floor remained unchanged), which were quite similar (just the living room and kitchen swapped places). This process took about seven weeks (and only sped up because we followed up—without our prompting, he probably still would not have responded) and the result was that these new drafts combined pretty much everything we said multiple times in detail that we DID NOT want. We assume he simply forgot everything after seven weeks since he hadn’t taken any notes during the meeting. Objectively, the drafts were just very poor; if I had shared them here in the forum, they would have been heavily criticized because there were many elements considered no-go’s. We were very frustrated to have effectively lost seven weeks for nothing, and the two second drafts were actually less suitable than the first. Yesterday, we had another meeting with the architect, explained everything again, and he roughly sketched some changes on the existing draft in our presence.
However, we felt he absolutely did not want to deviate from his original design, and the back-and-forth shifting of elements on the existing draft only made things worse (e.g., L-shaped utility room with a lot of unusable space). He barely or only partially addresses our change requests, so while the draft is somewhat closer to our wishes, it is far from something we would want to build. He absolutely refuses to change many things (the children’s rooms are too large for us, the bathroom too small with an awkward sanitary arrangement—for example, in the draft linked above the bathtub is positioned very awkwardly and tightly). However, he completely ignored our request to redesign the upper floor entirely. He is really holding onto the draft at all costs. He also refuses to change the staircase position, even after several requests to move it closer to the entrance; this was rejected with the explanation “It will make the entrance too tight.” That may be so, but then we simply need a completely new concept because we do not like it as it is. He won’t agree to that either. The exterior dimensions of the house seem fixed in his mind, even though I explained repeatedly that we would be fine increasing the size by a few centimeters (inches) if there were minor space issues. The elevations are awful and completely not the style we imagine for our house, and shifting the windows around does not improve things. I get the impression he already has the basic shape of this house ready in a drawer from a previous project and absolutely does not want to modify it because it would require more work. At least, that’s how it seems to us.
We are therefore completely dissatisfied; many aspects do not suit us, and working with the architect is a struggle. He only shifts walls on the existing draft and then claims everything is perfect. Every small change we want leads to a fight with him. This cannot continue—this floor plan is completely botched. We need a completely new concept, but he refuses to entertain that. We just don’t feel comfortable working with him anymore. I barely slept last night and get stomach aches just thinking about the floor plan. It can’t go on like this, and honestly, I see no further collaboration with this architect. The trust on our side is gone; we do not believe that continuing will ever result in a draft we like. He also subtly pressured us not to request several more preliminary drafts because then we supposedly wouldn’t know what we want anymore and so on...
In plain terms: we want to change the architect and end the collaboration with the current one. But how does this work? Is it that easy to terminate? And what costs can we expect for the current architect? All three drafts followed the style of the link posted above, meaning hand sketches without dimensions or similar. Does this still count as the preliminary design phase under HOAI (the German Fee Structure for Architects and Engineers) or is it already considered design planning? Does the architect charge according to HOAI even though he operates as a GmbH? Exact costs were not mentioned so far, only a rough estimate for the entire work up to submitting the building permit / planning application. It would be a shame if we have to pay a four-digit amount for this work, since it would be a lot of money for "nothing." But I just don’t see any continued cooperation with him, we’re no longer compatible personally or in terms of style and the floor plan. What would you do? Spend a lot of money for "nothing" and look for a new architect, or stick with this one and try to force a good draft through persistence and discussions? Although I doubt that would work, since he does not see many of the criticisms we raised (for example, the arrangement of sanitary fixtures in the bathroom feels very cramped, and we do not like the bathtub placement, or the size of the children's rooms—potentially reducing their size by relocating the office upstairs; we currently plan for one child but want two bedrooms because you never know if a second child might be desired later, but the rooms don’t need to be that large).
Many thanks in advance for any advice!
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alter002910 Jun 2016 13:12Do you already have a clear idea of how you want your floor plan to look? My suggestion is to visit a prefab home exhibition to gather some ideas. Most companies also display their floor plans online. Of course, copying them exactly would be intellectual property theft, but using them as inspiration should be fine. Everyone has their specific preferences anyway. Then, sketch out on paper what you envision and the exact size it should be, and present this to your architect, who will create the official plans. After all, you decide what you want, not the architect.
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Bauherrin201610 Jun 2016 13:46We have already visited two model home exhibitions, including one we visited several times. We also have quite clear ideas about the floor plan, and especially for the ground floor, we have created our own drawing that suits us and is based on a model home design. We provided both this drawing and the floor plan of the model home to our old and new architects as a guideline. It doesn’t have to be exactly the same, but it should be in that style. For the upper floor, we are still quite uncertain because the model home’s layout didn’t quite fit, and we haven’t been able to come up with something ourselves. However, we know what we want, it’s just the implementation that we struggle with.
The old architect immediately rejected our plan and the model home's floor plan, didn’t engage with them at all, and persistently pushed us back to his own design. This was a major reason why we changed architects. He completely ignored what we wanted and stubbornly insisted on his design. The new architect reviewed the plan yesterday, made some notes, thought it looked good and suitable for the lot at first glance, and will now create a design for us based on that concept.
It’s unfortunate that things are going so badly with the architect of your general contractor. That’s really frustrating, especially if you aren’t able to change.
The old architect immediately rejected our plan and the model home's floor plan, didn’t engage with them at all, and persistently pushed us back to his own design. This was a major reason why we changed architects. He completely ignored what we wanted and stubbornly insisted on his design. The new architect reviewed the plan yesterday, made some notes, thought it looked good and suitable for the lot at first glance, and will now create a design for us based on that concept.
It’s unfortunate that things are going so badly with the architect of your general contractor. That’s really frustrating, especially if you aren’t able to change.
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