ᐅ Are home battery storage systems for electric vehicles also not cost-effective? Costs of charging station and battery storage

I’ll join the conversation. My lease ends in December, and I’m looking for a replacement. Due to the electric vehicle incentive, I came across the Passat GTE (hybrid), which is currently offered at a very attractive price. I already have a photovoltaic system installed on the roof. However, since I’m usually home after 8 p.m., charging there wouldn’t really be possible. Therefore, charging in the morning hours would be more convenient. Ikea offers free charging and is practically across from my workplace, so I could plug in the car during the day. If something doesn’t work, the petrol engine can still be used. Is there any limitation in range compared to the non-hybrid version if the electric mode is not used at all? Does anyone have experience with this?

Thanks

Andre77 schrieb:

Is there any limitation in range compared to the non-hybrid if you wouldn't use the electric drive at all? Anyone have experience with this?

A colleague drives one (mostly on gasoline), but it’s a 4-year-old model. It’s a relatively weak gasoline engine with high fuel consumption and limited range (small tank). Our fleet manager dislikes these vehicles because, on average, diesels are cheaper for the company (excluding diesel hybrids).

@nordanney

It has 156 hp as a petrol engine plus 115 hp electric.
Now I also have 150 hp and can’t complain.

annab377 schrieb:

@RotorMotor hit the nail on the head:

There is 0.00% government subsidy for a photovoltaic system....

Excuse me?!
Where do you think the Renewable Energy Act feed-in tariff, guaranteed for 20 years, actually comes from? That’s a huge support program that’s been running for decades and still continues. Billions(!) of euros flow every year through the Renewable Energy Act surcharge!
On top of that, there are loan programs and grants from the KfW development bank. States, municipalities, and regional utilities also have their own programs.

nordanney schrieb:

Not an e-car, but a mini e-car...

… which is a lot of fun. I ordered an e-UP myself, but it probably won’t be delivered until next summer *cry*.

hampshire schrieb:

That’s exactly the right approach. Charging the car from the home battery storage doesn’t make sense—especially since most systems have very limited discharge capacity. Surplus electricity should go to the car, managed intelligently by a smart device and good scenario settings.

That’s correct, because photovoltaic systems have become profitable even without subsidies. Incentives simply don’t make sense anymore.

Charging from a stationary battery storage is fine if you already have one. But planning to install one just for that purpose is usually not economical. You have already mentioned the reasons, besides economic ones. The storage is simply not capable of delivering the high charging current required by the battery electric vehicle (BEV).
What is relatively easy is surplus charging—that means adjusting the BEV’s charging to the current excess solar power from the roof. This can be done expensively with turnkey solutions, e.g., “all components from SMA” (although you need to charge a lot for it to ever pay off), more affordably with something like an openWB wallbox, or even a "self-made" solution. I’ve implemented this with a controllable wallbox (there are unfortunately not many, in my case a go-eCharger) and a bit of software that queries data from the inverter and controls the wallbox accordingly.

Last but not least, there are practically no vehicles yet that feed stored electricity back into the building. That is still theoretical, just like battery cell recycling is right now. But it will surely come since this whole topic is still in its infancy.

Bookstar schrieb:

That’s the key to the puzzle! There were great discounts in January and then the Corona bonus. That adds up to over 11,000 euros (approx. $12,000). Once you try the car, you never want a combustion engine again. This thing is amazing. But it’s a bit off-topic—I just wanted to show what prices are like right now... maybe solar will also get some "promo" sometime.

You caught the absolute best timing (high manufacturer discounts in Q1 plus retroactive increased incentives). My ordered e-UP, from a list price of €25,800, after discounts and subsidies and including registration comes down to a neat €15,000 (approx. $16,300). Considering the features and driving performance, that’s unbeatable compared to combustion engine cars. Add tax advantages and low running costs. Simply a good deal.

RotorMotor schrieb:

That’s really insanely cheap when you consider that photovoltaic batteries rarely cost under 1,000 €/kWh (approx. $1,100/kWh). Why does it only cost about a third in cars, which also include wheels, motor, seats, etc.? Even with a €6,000 (approx. $6,500) electric vehicle subsidy, that doesn’t make sense?! Am I missing something or should we rather take batteries out of cars to use them as photovoltaic storage?

Well, that’s because cars are heavily subsidized right now. Also, the battery cell types might differ, and the production volumes are completely different.

Andre77 schrieb:

I’m tagging along here. My lease ends in December, and I’m looking for a replacement. Because of the e-car subsidies, I considered the Passat GTE (hybrid), which is currently offered very affordably. I already have solar panels on the roof. But since I’m usually home after 8 p.m., charging then is hardly possible. So charging in the morning hours would be interesting. Ikea offers free charging, and I’m basically across from my workplace and could charge there during the day. If something goes wrong, the gasoline engine can still be used. Are there any limitations compared to non-hybrids in terms of range if the electric part is hardly used? Anyone have experience with this?

For this plan, you would first be heavily criticized in well-known e-mobility forums, then practically “torn apart” and then (locally emission-free ) paraded through the village. Why?
There is a divide between BEV and PHEV drivers. The latter are seen as company car users who never actually drive electrically and buy these only for tax benefits. On the other hand, they clog the charging infrastructure BEV drivers depend on.
Additionally, there is the completely wrong expectation that charging is free. Yes, free offers exist, but those are mainly marketing schemes by supermarkets and are being cut back continuously because of abuse (people don’t shop but sit for hours in their cars just to get free power), causing frustration.
Also, and I can only emphasize this, a charging space is not a parking space. Hence, the “hate” is particularly strong against PHEV drivers who think it’s acceptable to occupy a charging spot for hours without actually charging because their small batteries and slow charging electronics take forever. To be clear: Once you finish charging, free up the charging spot!
Even worse are people with electric license plates who treat charging spots as exclusive electric parking only spots—meaning they just park without even plugging in as an excuse (e.g., at 90% state of charge). This is problematic because it needlessly blocks the charging spot. Apps may show it as free, but arriving on site, especially as a BEV driver in “charging emergency,” that is the worst possible situation any e-driver can imagine. Unfortunately, some cities facilitate this by signage that permits such behavior or was poorly chosen. This is changing, though; more and more parking spaces are being labeled with restrictions that parking is only allowed during charging. That means you have to move your car as soon as charging is finished, or it will quickly be towed. Some big cities are known to enforce this rigorously, and hardcore e-mobilists make it their mission to have problematic cars towed.

So, in short:
If your plan is to buy an electric vehicle—whether BEV or PHEV—because somewhere there is “free electricity,” that’s at best short-sighted. And if you don’t want trouble at the charging station, please move your car as soon as you are done charging.

I believe I read somewhere that VW currently pays around 150 euros per kWh (kilowatt-hour), with a downward trend. I don’t understand why a private individual pays 1,000 euros per kWh. Technically, the same cells should be used in cars and home storage systems, right?

Andre77 schrieb:

It has 156 hp as a gasoline engine

The perception of power is relative. 200 diesel horsepower in a regular Passat that is 250kg (550 lbs) lighter is a completely different level. And when you drive 50,000 km (31,000 miles) a year, you notice this very quickly. At least, I do.