ᐅ Is an architect really that expensive?

@merlin83: No, that’s not what this is referring to, of course. We found two more providers who are about 10 percent cheaper. We are now at 1,280 EUR/sqm (118 USD/sqft) for two full stories plus a hip roof. This includes everything from architectural services, structural engineer, thermal insulation certification, surveying (!), construction water and electricity consumption, earthworks, foundation, concrete slab, up to the blower door test. Missing so far are flooring, painting, mechanical ventilation with heat recovery, and the extra cost for electric roller shutters (190 EUR (210 USD) per window including motor, control next to the door, installation, wiring, etc.). Included in the price are about 50 electrical outlets, network cabling for almost all rooms (living room, children’s rooms, bedrooms, guest room, office), tinted windows (instead of plain white), and all interior walls built as solid masonry.

And Sebastian, are you really telling me that you come in under 1,280 EUR/sqm (118 USD/sqft) without flooring, painting, and without the cost of your mechanical ventilation system, but including the entire architectural fee plus structural engineer, surveyor, etc.?

Just the architect, structural engineer (engineering + thermal insulation certification), and surveyor alone add up to about 200 EUR/sqm (18.50 USD/sqft) if you calculate it that way. That leaves you less than 1,100 EUR/sqm (101 USD/sqft) for the house itself to be price-wise comparable. I’m happy to be proven wrong here if you have some facts, but I seriously doubt it.

No, they are around 1600 euros – but not with such a minimal standard specification. And then EVERYTHING is included.

That’s exactly the problem I described: it’s hard to make a direct comparison – but your description sounds more like a budget house, where even solid interior walls are emphasized...

And structural engineers/surveyors/architects don’t even come close to costing 200 euros per square meter (approximately 19 dollars per square foot) – not even half of that.

I'm not saying we should stick to the basic features. But to increase the cost from 1,280 EUR to 1,600 EUR per square meter, you need a lot, a lot, a lot of extras.

Are the costs for the architect, structural engineer, and surveyor included in the 1,600 EUR/m²? And your own labor as well, which would reduce the overall cost?

Why would structural engineers/surveyors/architects only charge 100 EUR/m²? 150 m² (1,615 ft²) times 1,500 EUR comes to 225,000 EUR. The minimum fee for architects is about 28,000 EUR for all service phases including additional costs/VAT, which equals 187 EUR/m².

By the way, what do you consider basic features and what did you do differently?

Generally, with 1800-2000 Euros per square meter, you only get a "standard" build—whatever that means...

We have 250 m² (2690 sq ft), including a basement used as living space, and yes, I already mentioned that all costs are included. And yes, own labor is factored in. The architect didn’t manage all project phases—only the most important tenders were organized.

For me, the minimum equipment means 50 electrical outlets—you don’t have much more than that in the so-called "standard." I have nearly three times that amount, plus about 50 network outlets. And then I added a few special extras as well.

I don’t see a finished basement in the picture; a proper finished basement has large, real windows on all sides. Room height at least 2.50m (8.2 ft)? You are really comparing apples and oranges here. Calculate your €400,000 minus €80,000 for an insulated, heated basement with electrical installation, ventilation, etc., then €320,000 for 250*2/3 = 167 sqm (1,796 sq ft) → €1,916 per sqm (approximately $178 per sq ft). That is a realistic figure — typical for an architect-designed house. But you can’t include the basement in the calculation.

Good evening,

merlin83 schrieb:

It depends on what you want – at least with every craftsman company you have a say and can decide whether price or quality should be the priority.

I partly agree with you; insofar as you have a say in the fittings, but not regarding the services according to the standards of the currently valid construction technology. Accordingly, the "negotiable" scope when choosing a tradesman company is limited solely to the offered fittings. From experience, self-chosen tradesmen are not significantly cheaper than their "contracted" counterparts; on the contrary, they are happy to charge a wage that corresponds to their performance.

However, this topic – as interesting as the discussion may be – should, in my opinion, always be discussed with a personal perspective. Just as there is no such thing as “the” stone, there is no universally valid approach when choosing a temporary construction partner. What is right for you does not necessarily have to be the right decision for another builder. Life is diverse.

merlin83 schrieb:

By the way, more expensive does not always mean better.

That's true. If we can agree that every service has its value, then you will surely agree with me that, conversely, very cheap can eventually become very expensive.

Grym schrieb:

... Discounts of up to 50 percent compared to the inquiry from homeowner Jane Doe are certainly not uncommon.

General contractor (GC) usually means the shell construction, and the rest of the trades are procured through long-term partners. Sometimes one or two other trades can be found within the builder’s company; that is about it in general. "Jane Doe" certainly won’t be buying at 50% more expensive prices, just as the GC would not want to drive away their masons out of penny-pinching; it is in their interest to retain good personnel for the long term.

It is true that between the GC and a familiar supplier (pick one yourself), there are year-end price negotiations regarding expected volumes. Even if some may – supposedly – have to cut back here, they save on expensive advertising budgets, architects, and structural engineers; meaning they not only secure an annual quota of projects, but they get contracts delivered turnkey. So, if I had to estimate, I would assume that "Jane Doe" pays between 15 and 20% more if she does not build through a GC. If "Jane Doe" decides to realize her house build through an architect, it is probably another 10 to 15%.

Always assuming that apples are compared to apples and no services are provided in kind.

Regards, Bauexperte