Hello everyone,
I want to undertake the insulation of the top floor ceiling myself.
[Facts]:
- Semi-detached house built in 1972, two floors with heated basement rooms
- Upper floor ceiling made of reinforced concrete - B225, thickness according to plan 16cm (6.3 inches)
- Roof pitch is 18 degrees and cannot be converted into living space
- The purlins rest directly on the concrete ceiling
- The roof will not be insulated; instead, the floor will be insulated
- The attic space should be partially usable as storage and walkable
See sketch top view attic 110 sqm (1184 sq ft) area, approx. 40 sqm (430 sq ft) walkable
[Questions]:
1) Preparations:
What preparations do I need to make on the concrete before starting work? Thorough cleaning?
2) Vapor barrier:
Do I also need to install a vapor barrier foil on the reinforced concrete B225 at the upper floor?
3) Insulation material:
I plan to lay EPS 040 WI/DI/DZ 50mm (2 inch) polystyrene boards (width 500mm (20 inches) x length 1000mm (39 inches)) double-layered and staggered (without cross joints) everywhere.
This means about 9-10cm (3.5-4 inches) of insulation thickness. What U-value would I achieve with this?
Material cost comes to around 800 EUR including VAT.
Which affordable insulation boards would you recommend for my project? Has anyone had experience using polystyrene boards?
4) OSB boards (thickness - no idea - any recommendations)?
For the walkable area I would additionally install OSB-3 tongue and groove boards, 12mm (0.5 inch) thick, 205cm (80 inches) x 62.5cm (25 inches).
Material cost is approximately 200 EUR including VAT.
5) How should I deal with cables embedded in the concrete ceiling and around the purlins when insulating?
6) How should/could I insulate the attic stairs?
7) Are there any special considerations I might have overlooked?
Looking forward to your opinions/ideas/tips and tricks,
Chippy
I want to undertake the insulation of the top floor ceiling myself.
[Facts]:
- Semi-detached house built in 1972, two floors with heated basement rooms
- Upper floor ceiling made of reinforced concrete - B225, thickness according to plan 16cm (6.3 inches)
- Roof pitch is 18 degrees and cannot be converted into living space
- The purlins rest directly on the concrete ceiling
- The roof will not be insulated; instead, the floor will be insulated
- The attic space should be partially usable as storage and walkable
See sketch top view attic 110 sqm (1184 sq ft) area, approx. 40 sqm (430 sq ft) walkable
[Questions]:
1) Preparations:
What preparations do I need to make on the concrete before starting work? Thorough cleaning?
2) Vapor barrier:
Do I also need to install a vapor barrier foil on the reinforced concrete B225 at the upper floor?
3) Insulation material:
I plan to lay EPS 040 WI/DI/DZ 50mm (2 inch) polystyrene boards (width 500mm (20 inches) x length 1000mm (39 inches)) double-layered and staggered (without cross joints) everywhere.
This means about 9-10cm (3.5-4 inches) of insulation thickness. What U-value would I achieve with this?
Material cost comes to around 800 EUR including VAT.
Which affordable insulation boards would you recommend for my project? Has anyone had experience using polystyrene boards?
4) OSB boards (thickness - no idea - any recommendations)?
For the walkable area I would additionally install OSB-3 tongue and groove boards, 12mm (0.5 inch) thick, 205cm (80 inches) x 62.5cm (25 inches).
Material cost is approximately 200 EUR including VAT.
5) How should I deal with cables embedded in the concrete ceiling and around the purlins when insulating?
6) How should/could I insulate the attic stairs?
7) Are there any special considerations I might have overlooked?
Looking forward to your opinions/ideas/tips and tricks,
Chippy
parcus schrieb:
Mineral wool insulation can also be walked on when installed in timber frame construction, provided a load-bearing 22mm OSB/ESB board is placed on top.
Anything below 0.14 W/(m²·K) would also qualify for the 20% subsidy from KfW. Would I receive the 20% subsidy only for the material, or would I need to hire a professional company for the installation as well?
Thanks
The KfW does not require a specialized company; however, all material invoices must be correctly issued to the construction project and the applicant.
The energy consultant reviews and approves the invoices based on their expertise.
In cases of such small matters, the more relevant question is what fee the energy consultant charges for their services despite the 50% subsidy.
The energy consultant reviews and approves the invoices based on their expertise.
In cases of such small matters, the more relevant question is what fee the energy consultant charges for their services despite the 50% subsidy.
N
nordanney28 Oct 2020 18:50chippy79 schrieb:
Would the 20% grant apply only to the materials, or would I need to hire a professional company for the installation? The 20% applies only to materials if you do the work yourself. However, the materials must cost at least €1,500 (approx. USD 1,600) because the KfW only pays out from €300 (approx. USD 320).
B
benediktr28 Oct 2020 20:18Check the prices for double-sided aluminum foil-faced 160 mm (6.3 inches) PUR/PIR boards. That way, you won’t have to worry about reaching the 1,500 mark. I recently installed 110 sq meters (1,184 sq ft) in my new build.
Ok, thanks. I have now contacted the company Dämmstoffkönig. Here is their feedback:
The panels for €14.85 were left outside for a while, see description.
The panels for €15.78 do not have tongue and groove, for example, and have minor defects.
Since both panels are aluminum foil laminated on both sides, you do not need an additional vapor barrier film.
I would rather choose the PUR rigid foam panels laminated with aluminum foil on both sides, WLG 023 for €15.78. Then I just need to ask the company if they can issue the invoice with a reference to insulating the top floor ceiling or something similar? And is it a problem if the panels don’t have tongue and groove?
---
For the window replacement in the upper floor apartment, I already have approval from the KFW430 individual measures program, as well as the KFW431 program. So, could I now try to retroactively get funding for insulating the top floor ceiling through the 430 program as well? Would I need to modify the application since I unfortunately didn’t check that option :-(
However, in the application under thermal insulation of floor/ceiling assemblies:
Point 3.1 Top floor ceiling to unfinished attic spaces: U-value ≤ 0.14 W/(m²K)*
Point 3.2 Basement ceilings, ceilings to unheated rooms: U-value ≤ 0.25 W/(m²K)*
Which point applies here? If point 3.1 applies, then for funding I would need to achieve a U-value of 0.14. Can I achieve that value with the panels mentioned above?
Thanks a lot for the great help.
Best regards
chippy79
The panels for €14.85 were left outside for a while, see description.
The panels for €15.78 do not have tongue and groove, for example, and have minor defects.
Since both panels are aluminum foil laminated on both sides, you do not need an additional vapor barrier film.
I would rather choose the PUR rigid foam panels laminated with aluminum foil on both sides, WLG 023 for €15.78. Then I just need to ask the company if they can issue the invoice with a reference to insulating the top floor ceiling or something similar? And is it a problem if the panels don’t have tongue and groove?
---
For the window replacement in the upper floor apartment, I already have approval from the KFW430 individual measures program, as well as the KFW431 program. So, could I now try to retroactively get funding for insulating the top floor ceiling through the 430 program as well? Would I need to modify the application since I unfortunately didn’t check that option :-(
However, in the application under thermal insulation of floor/ceiling assemblies:
Point 3.1 Top floor ceiling to unfinished attic spaces: U-value ≤ 0.14 W/(m²K)*
Point 3.2 Basement ceilings, ceilings to unheated rooms: U-value ≤ 0.25 W/(m²K)*
Which point applies here? If point 3.1 applies, then for funding I would need to achieve a U-value of 0.14. Can I achieve that value with the panels mentioned above?
Thanks a lot for the great help.
Best regards
chippy79
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