ᐅ Installing click-lock vinyl flooring despite possibly excessive residual moisture
Created on: 21 Nov 2023 10:49
J
jrth2151
Just as a preliminary note:
Yes, I wouldn’t recommend this to anyone myself, and yes, I know that a CM measurement has to be done, as it is the only truly reliable method to measure residual moisture.
And yes, I know we like to educate each other here in the forum, but please put that aside for a moment and follow my explanation.
Our calcium aluminate screed (alpha-hemihydrate) was installed on 26.07.23. The windows remained closed for three days afterwards, and the house was not entered. After that, we started ventilating several times daily with burst ventilation. We always monitored the hx diagram to achieve the lowest possible relative indoor humidity matching the outdoor conditions.
After three weeks, the functional/maturity heating began. The flow temperature was gradually increased and then maintained at 50°C (122°F) for a total of 14 days. Afterwards, the temperature was slowly reduced to 21°C (70°F).
Then I measured residual moisture with an electric moisture meter (yes, inaccurate) and got a reading of less than 0.2%. So at least the indicators look good so far.
We then had no heating for about four weeks but continued ventilating optimally according to the hx diagram. Since last week, the heating has been running again at 21°C (70°F).
That’s the background information.
The issue:
We have to move in before Christmas because we have already terminated our rental contract and the loan repayment has started. That means we can hardly afford to wait any longer anyway. It would practically be impossible.
At the end of next week, we will be installing floating click vinyl flooring—Wineo 600 rigid. Now let’s assume I don’t do a CM measurement. What is the worst-case scenario? Does anyone here have experience with this? We would leave off the baseboards until a few weeks later and only cover the essential rooms such as the bedrooms and open-plan kitchen/living area.
And again, I wouldn’t personally recommend this to anyone, but unfortunately, we really have no other real choice now…
Yes, I wouldn’t recommend this to anyone myself, and yes, I know that a CM measurement has to be done, as it is the only truly reliable method to measure residual moisture.
And yes, I know we like to educate each other here in the forum, but please put that aside for a moment and follow my explanation.
Our calcium aluminate screed (alpha-hemihydrate) was installed on 26.07.23. The windows remained closed for three days afterwards, and the house was not entered. After that, we started ventilating several times daily with burst ventilation. We always monitored the hx diagram to achieve the lowest possible relative indoor humidity matching the outdoor conditions.
After three weeks, the functional/maturity heating began. The flow temperature was gradually increased and then maintained at 50°C (122°F) for a total of 14 days. Afterwards, the temperature was slowly reduced to 21°C (70°F).
Then I measured residual moisture with an electric moisture meter (yes, inaccurate) and got a reading of less than 0.2%. So at least the indicators look good so far.
We then had no heating for about four weeks but continued ventilating optimally according to the hx diagram. Since last week, the heating has been running again at 21°C (70°F).
That’s the background information.
The issue:
We have to move in before Christmas because we have already terminated our rental contract and the loan repayment has started. That means we can hardly afford to wait any longer anyway. It would practically be impossible.
At the end of next week, we will be installing floating click vinyl flooring—Wineo 600 rigid. Now let’s assume I don’t do a CM measurement. What is the worst-case scenario? Does anyone here have experience with this? We would leave off the baseboards until a few weeks later and only cover the essential rooms such as the bedrooms and open-plan kitchen/living area.
And again, I wouldn’t personally recommend this to anyone, but unfortunately, we really have no other real choice now…
M
motorradsilke21 Nov 2023 23:08KlaRa schrieb:
Maybe we should first ask the original poster whether measurement points are indicated in the screed?
This is quite an important aspect to avoid hitting the heating pipes when taking samples with a hammer and chisel... I assumed that a screed installer would always do this.
X
xMisterDx22 Nov 2023 21:21Can’t you just use a corner of the room or the area in front of the entrance door? I have at least 30cm (12 inches) of "clearance" between the door and the first "strip."
But... if it’s unavoidable to install the flooring and move in anyway, because the apartment has been terminated and the lease won’t be extended (the next tenant probably wants to move in by 1.1.?), and it can’t even be paid for... then you can save yourself all the hassle of measuring. What will it achieve?
At best, you can install the floor and sleep calmly...
At worst, you’ll be right at the limit and won’t know if that’s just in one room or everywhere. Then you install the floor and sleep restlessly...
In the worst case, your measurements exceed the limit significantly, you still have to lay the floor, and for the first few weeks you barely sleep at all...
Install the flooring wherever you still can. The rooms are still empty now, so it’s quick and easy. Once stuff is standing around and you have to move things back and forth for every little task, with children running around in between, you hardly get anything done anymore.
But... if it’s unavoidable to install the flooring and move in anyway, because the apartment has been terminated and the lease won’t be extended (the next tenant probably wants to move in by 1.1.?), and it can’t even be paid for... then you can save yourself all the hassle of measuring. What will it achieve?
At best, you can install the floor and sleep calmly...
At worst, you’ll be right at the limit and won’t know if that’s just in one room or everywhere. Then you install the floor and sleep restlessly...
In the worst case, your measurements exceed the limit significantly, you still have to lay the floor, and for the first few weeks you barely sleep at all...
Install the flooring wherever you still can. The rooms are still empty now, so it’s quick and easy. Once stuff is standing around and you have to move things back and forth for every little task, with children running around in between, you hardly get anything done anymore.
jrth2151 schrieb:
The issue is this:The problem exists because no one ever says it’s time to bring one or two dehumidifiers into the house! One week should be enough.Thank you for all the updates and sorry for the late response. The vapor barrier test looks okay, with only minimal moisture visible. I did not place a hygrometer underneath. All materials on the screed now—tiles, vapor barriers, cardboard, etc.—are completely dry from below. We have literally turned over every stone. We will continue heating thoroughly for almost another week before starting the floor covering work.
We also considered the CM measurement, but no matter the result, we have no choice but to move in. We are currently trying to organize a construction dehumidifier, but in the meantime, I got two consumer dehumidifiers (30L/24h) that we will keep running and integrate into our daily life afterward. Their dehumidification capacity nearly matches that of construction dehumidifiers. For now, we are also leaving out baseboards to minimize risk and to enable quick action if mold occurs.
I also asked our construction manager (from the main contractor, who I think is very good) for his assessment. He can’t and won’t give an official statement but told me in confidence that, based on his experience, he does not expect any problems.
We are well aware that we need to heat a lot and ventilate intensively at the beginning. I follow this forum very actively and absorb all your information about proper heating and ventilation behavior. Many thanks to everyone for that.
If the worst-case scenario is needing to replace the floor covering, that at least would not be a total economic loss. Of course, it would be very frustrating, but survivable. I’m not too worried about the kitchen, as it will be in the driest room on the south side. Most moisture over the past months appeared in the upper floor on the north side, which is logical.
Fortunately, we designed the floor plan so that no large furniture is placed against the exterior wall. The kitchen units and the cabinet only have their narrow sides against an exterior wall.
We don’t have children yet, so we are leaving the two children’s rooms on the upper floor (north side) empty for now and will install the flooring there only after Christmas. On the north side, there is also my home office (ground floor) and the tiled utility room plus the children's bathroom. Tiles are less critical in terms of moisture there.
Thanks again for your assessments and for keeping things realistic. That’s not always the case around here 😉
If you have any more tips on how we can reduce the risk further, please share. We would really appreciate it.
We also considered the CM measurement, but no matter the result, we have no choice but to move in. We are currently trying to organize a construction dehumidifier, but in the meantime, I got two consumer dehumidifiers (30L/24h) that we will keep running and integrate into our daily life afterward. Their dehumidification capacity nearly matches that of construction dehumidifiers. For now, we are also leaving out baseboards to minimize risk and to enable quick action if mold occurs.
I also asked our construction manager (from the main contractor, who I think is very good) for his assessment. He can’t and won’t give an official statement but told me in confidence that, based on his experience, he does not expect any problems.
We are well aware that we need to heat a lot and ventilate intensively at the beginning. I follow this forum very actively and absorb all your information about proper heating and ventilation behavior. Many thanks to everyone for that.
If the worst-case scenario is needing to replace the floor covering, that at least would not be a total economic loss. Of course, it would be very frustrating, but survivable. I’m not too worried about the kitchen, as it will be in the driest room on the south side. Most moisture over the past months appeared in the upper floor on the north side, which is logical.
Fortunately, we designed the floor plan so that no large furniture is placed against the exterior wall. The kitchen units and the cabinet only have their narrow sides against an exterior wall.
We don’t have children yet, so we are leaving the two children’s rooms on the upper floor (north side) empty for now and will install the flooring there only after Christmas. On the north side, there is also my home office (ground floor) and the tiled utility room plus the children's bathroom. Tiles are less critical in terms of moisture there.
Thanks again for your assessments and for keeping things realistic. That’s not always the case around here 😉
If you have any more tips on how we can reduce the risk further, please share. We would really appreciate it.
KlaRa schrieb:
The manufacturer, Windmöller GmbH, specifies the following in their installation instructions for "Wineo 600 rigid":
"Contrary to DIN 18560, we recommend a maximum residual moisture of ≤ 0.3 %CM for calcium sulfate (CA) screeds."
DIN 18560 part 2 specifies a maximum residual moisture of ≤ 0.5 %CM for calcium sulfate screeds (CAF).
This means that the substrate of the design flooring reacts to (rising moisture from below). In this context, I also asked Windmöller whether a vapor barrier would make sense. Their answer was that the Rigid 600 is made from a polymer material and that a vapor barrier is only necessary for wooden subfloors or wood-containing floor coverings (such as laminate flooring or our multi-layer floors). Since our rigid vinyl flooring is not a wood product, an additional vapor barrier is not required. Both above and below the rigid core board there is an elastic top and bottom layer made of vinyl, which forms the soft outer shell around the hard and firm core.
So, as far as I understand, it’s all plastic.
X
xMisterDx23 Nov 2023 16:37jrth2151 schrieb:
(...)
Fortunately, we don’t have children yet, so we’ll leave the two children’s rooms on the upper floor (north side) empty for now and install the flooring there only after Christmas. On the north side, there is also my home office (on the ground floor) and the tiled utility room plus the kids’ bathroom. Tiles there aren’t really critical.
(...)Oh, I see. Then it makes sense to only finish the essential rooms for now and do the rest after moving in. Good luck with that!
However, I would probably still go ahead and install the baseboards... people often underestimate the effort involved, and once the furniture is in place, no one wants to move it a meter away from the wall just to install baseboards behind it. Just keep a 10-15mm (about 0.4-0.6 inches) expansion gap, and nothing should go wrong.
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