ᐅ Possible defects or poor workmanship in the roof insulation
Created on: 6 Jan 2019 18:16
W
Winniefred
Hello dear forum community!
At the beginning of 2017, we bought an old house and had it renovated by professional companies. This means that the "important" work like plumbing, electrical, roof insulation, and tiling was done by specialists, of course properly invoiced. Among other things, we had the already converted attic insulated again by a drywall specialist (around June to September 2017); the new roof windows were installed by roofers. The main issue with the drywall contractors was scheduling. Despite a verbal commitment to finish by the end of July, they were still not done by mid-September; one day before our move-in, the knee wall was still open and nothing was finished. We then had to terminate the contract with the company. The electricians and plumbers were only able to complete the heating, water installations, and electrical work after we had moved in, once we had closed the knee wall ourselves. We then did the jointing, priming, and painting ourselves – just to clarify, as this does not really relate to today’s issue. The insulation itself was completed by the company. The roofing underlay membrane was from the previous roof conversion and was in good condition. Everything else was completely renewed, meaning insulation wool, battens added, vapor barrier foil, and drywall panels on the sloped ceilings down to the knee wall.
So far so good, we thought. But recently, water has started dripping from one spot in the sloped ceiling, exactly where a piece of a crossbeam of the supporting roof structure protrudes. This beam was still visible with the old insulation; the additional battens almost completely covered it in the new insulation and it was integrated and sealed.
We then had the roofer come out. He went onto the roof and covered a section. He said the roof was watertight, the water was accumulating under the roofing underlay membrane, and he couldn’t see anything wrong with the roof itself. This man has no reason to lie as he did not install the roof (which was done around 1995). He said it would be condensation from inside. He showed us pictures on his phone taken on the roof. And we are talking about a lot of water, not just a few small drops. He said that even a small, unsealed staple could cause 8 liters of condensation water. This occurs inevitably in bedrooms, passes through the leaks into the insulation, condenses on the cold outer side of the insulation, and then drips back inside. Water always finds its way.
Following this, we opened about 2 square meters (around 21.5 square feet) of drywall at the corresponding spot. Underneath, we found a brown and damp spot on the vapor barrier foil as well as two unsealed staples. Most of the staples were sealed with tape. Additionally, we discovered that the drywall installers did not apply sealing tape to the rafters. This means the vapor barrier foil is punctured at several staples and all drilled holes. The rafters are exposed and the foil was simply stapled directly to the bare rafters, with the drywall panels screwed on top. So wherever the drywall panels were screwed to the rafters, it’s now leaking. Probably all over the entire attic. We've only opened the 2 square meter area so far. Since it is cold now, we haven’t opened the area all the way up to the roofing underlay membrane to avoid letting cold air in, especially as this is our bedroom. We do not have another room to use. It is certainly wet underneath, in the insulation and on the roof beams, given that water has already started dripping.
Now we have a problem. We plan to have the roofer inspect the roof again, just to be sure it’s not leaking from outside. After that, we want to discuss the issue with the company. We can already imagine how this will go—they will deny responsibility and will likely be fully booked for 2019 anyway. In the worst case, it means everything will have to be removed and renewed—but not until summer or spring. Furniture out, walls down, drywall and insulation removed, bathroom installation removed again.
What would you do now? We do have legal expenses insurance. Our main concern is the huge effort we will face if our fears are correct and the entire vapor barrier foil is not sealed properly. The attic contains our bedroom plus a bathroom with a toilet and washbasin.
I would really appreciate suggestions and help to sort out my thoughts.
At the beginning of 2017, we bought an old house and had it renovated by professional companies. This means that the "important" work like plumbing, electrical, roof insulation, and tiling was done by specialists, of course properly invoiced. Among other things, we had the already converted attic insulated again by a drywall specialist (around June to September 2017); the new roof windows were installed by roofers. The main issue with the drywall contractors was scheduling. Despite a verbal commitment to finish by the end of July, they were still not done by mid-September; one day before our move-in, the knee wall was still open and nothing was finished. We then had to terminate the contract with the company. The electricians and plumbers were only able to complete the heating, water installations, and electrical work after we had moved in, once we had closed the knee wall ourselves. We then did the jointing, priming, and painting ourselves – just to clarify, as this does not really relate to today’s issue. The insulation itself was completed by the company. The roofing underlay membrane was from the previous roof conversion and was in good condition. Everything else was completely renewed, meaning insulation wool, battens added, vapor barrier foil, and drywall panels on the sloped ceilings down to the knee wall.
So far so good, we thought. But recently, water has started dripping from one spot in the sloped ceiling, exactly where a piece of a crossbeam of the supporting roof structure protrudes. This beam was still visible with the old insulation; the additional battens almost completely covered it in the new insulation and it was integrated and sealed.
We then had the roofer come out. He went onto the roof and covered a section. He said the roof was watertight, the water was accumulating under the roofing underlay membrane, and he couldn’t see anything wrong with the roof itself. This man has no reason to lie as he did not install the roof (which was done around 1995). He said it would be condensation from inside. He showed us pictures on his phone taken on the roof. And we are talking about a lot of water, not just a few small drops. He said that even a small, unsealed staple could cause 8 liters of condensation water. This occurs inevitably in bedrooms, passes through the leaks into the insulation, condenses on the cold outer side of the insulation, and then drips back inside. Water always finds its way.
Following this, we opened about 2 square meters (around 21.5 square feet) of drywall at the corresponding spot. Underneath, we found a brown and damp spot on the vapor barrier foil as well as two unsealed staples. Most of the staples were sealed with tape. Additionally, we discovered that the drywall installers did not apply sealing tape to the rafters. This means the vapor barrier foil is punctured at several staples and all drilled holes. The rafters are exposed and the foil was simply stapled directly to the bare rafters, with the drywall panels screwed on top. So wherever the drywall panels were screwed to the rafters, it’s now leaking. Probably all over the entire attic. We've only opened the 2 square meter area so far. Since it is cold now, we haven’t opened the area all the way up to the roofing underlay membrane to avoid letting cold air in, especially as this is our bedroom. We do not have another room to use. It is certainly wet underneath, in the insulation and on the roof beams, given that water has already started dripping.
Now we have a problem. We plan to have the roofer inspect the roof again, just to be sure it’s not leaking from outside. After that, we want to discuss the issue with the company. We can already imagine how this will go—they will deny responsibility and will likely be fully booked for 2019 anyway. In the worst case, it means everything will have to be removed and renewed—but not until summer or spring. Furniture out, walls down, drywall and insulation removed, bathroom installation removed again.
What would you do now? We do have legal expenses insurance. Our main concern is the huge effort we will face if our fears are correct and the entire vapor barrier foil is not sealed properly. The attic contains our bedroom plus a bathroom with a toilet and washbasin.
I would really appreciate suggestions and help to sort out my thoughts.
Winniefred11 Jan 2019 12:07Yes, it did actually arrive. The current plan is to have a roofer inspect the entire roof to check where and if there is still a lot of water trapped under the membrane and to confirm whether it could really not be coming from outside (which we had planned to check anyway). Then, we are supposed to monitor for a while to see when it drips (considering outside temperature, rain, etc.). Once the outside temperatures are appropriate, the roof will be redone. The extent of the work will depend on the roofer’s assessment and how things look once it is properly opened up. He mentioned that it might also be possible that there is too much space between the insulation and the external membrane at the affected area, causing condensation there. At the moment, it is unfortunately not possible to do the repair because it would become almost as cold up there as outside. So, there is still some time. So far, it only drips occasionally in one spot. The rest of the roof appears to be fine, or at least not bad enough for water to find its way inside.
Winniefred11 Jan 2019 12:23Well, we don’t have many options for now.
Yes, we can sleep there normally. It’s a corner where there used to be just a desk. Now there are two buckets hanging from the roof beam.
Of course, it needs to be repaired, that’s clear. But first, we need to find out where it’s still wet. Then we have to see. This won’t be fixed in just a day or two. The coldest weeks of the year are coming now, and I don’t want to leave it open.
I will report back on what the roofer finds. However, they won’t come until the week after next.
Yes, we can sleep there normally. It’s a corner where there used to be just a desk. Now there are two buckets hanging from the roof beam.
Of course, it needs to be repaired, that’s clear. But first, we need to find out where it’s still wet. Then we have to see. This won’t be fixed in just a day or two. The coldest weeks of the year are coming now, and I don’t want to leave it open.
I will report back on what the roofer finds. However, they won’t come until the week after next.
F
fach1werk11 Jan 2019 19:53The roofer absolutely needs to document everything with photos and written notes. You should also secure a confirmation from the drywall contractor in some way, and if you call them again, ask all the questions and record the conversation. This is allowed within their professional scope. There is potential for issues in this matter.
Hopefully, everything goes smoothly for you!
Best regards, Gabriele
Hopefully, everything goes smoothly for you!
Best regards, Gabriele