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patricia8211 Jun 2017 16:31Dear homebuilders,
We are planning to buy an older house that needs extensive renovation.
The KfW offer (grant and low-interest loan) is very interesting for us, so we have engaged an energy consultant. We have now received two cost proposals.
It is still unclear whether we should apply for the individual measures package (KfW loan up to 50,000 EUR) or the KfW Program 151 (up to 100,000 EUR).
Regardless, we have received two completely different cost proposals from two different energy consultants and are unsure how to proceed.
Cost Proposal 1.)
Services:
- Energy concept, energy consultation, report preparation (1,000 EUR)
- KfW application, review of documents submitted by the client (300 EUR)
- Confirmation after completion of the measures (300 EUR)
Total cost: 1,600 EUR
Cost Proposal 2.)
Services:
- Brief consultation & funding verification (500 EUR)
- Construction supervision (KfW 431): professional planning, support with obtaining quotes, monitoring construction work, invoice checking, acceptance of the renovation, report (9,500 EUR)
Total cost: 10,000 EUR
The two proposals seem very different to me, and I would like to hear from an experienced user here which services are really necessary and which are offered but not required at all for KfW funding.
We plan to carry out most of the work ourselves, but not everything.
What would you say which services make sense for us and which are not needed?
Thank you for your advice!
We are planning to buy an older house that needs extensive renovation.
The KfW offer (grant and low-interest loan) is very interesting for us, so we have engaged an energy consultant. We have now received two cost proposals.
It is still unclear whether we should apply for the individual measures package (KfW loan up to 50,000 EUR) or the KfW Program 151 (up to 100,000 EUR).
Regardless, we have received two completely different cost proposals from two different energy consultants and are unsure how to proceed.
Cost Proposal 1.)
Services:
- Energy concept, energy consultation, report preparation (1,000 EUR)
- KfW application, review of documents submitted by the client (300 EUR)
- Confirmation after completion of the measures (300 EUR)
Total cost: 1,600 EUR
Cost Proposal 2.)
Services:
- Brief consultation & funding verification (500 EUR)
- Construction supervision (KfW 431): professional planning, support with obtaining quotes, monitoring construction work, invoice checking, acceptance of the renovation, report (9,500 EUR)
Total cost: 10,000 EUR
The two proposals seem very different to me, and I would like to hear from an experienced user here which services are really necessary and which are offered but not required at all for KfW funding.
We plan to carry out most of the work ourselves, but not everything.
What would you say which services make sense for us and which are not needed?
Thank you for your advice!
The two quotes serve completely different purposes. The first one apparently covers just the energy consultation including the KfW paperwork. The second one includes support throughout the renovation, including tendering, construction management, and final inspection (as well as the KfW paperwork).
It seems you were talking past each other quite a bit?!
It seems you were talking past each other quite a bit?!
Alex is right, the second option offers construction supervision, which costs significantly more.
This construction supervision for KfW (and as far as I know, the consultation as well) can be reimbursed up to 50% by the KfW Bank (however, there is a maximum amount), and you might need to submit an application to KfW before you can claim reimbursement for the energy consultation and construction supervision.
The consumer advice center also offers energy consultations. The value depends on the expert providing the service. They offer a free initial consultation by phone and then an on-site visit for around €15 (about $16).
The Homeowners' Protection Association also offers free initial consultations.
Fundamentally:
Anyone building a new home must comply with the 2016 Energy Saving Ordinance standards, which are now close to the KfW 55 standard. Meeting these standards could allow you to access a €100,000 (approximately $107,000) loan.
In our case, we achieved KfW 55 through an additional heat pump. Solar thermal or photovoltaic systems also contribute significantly to improving the energy balance. Most construction companies already have some experience with this.
So, the energy consultation itself is not necessarily required if your only goal is to meet the KfW 55 standard.
On the other hand, I think it makes sense to first get offers from several builders and then possibly discuss these offers with an energy consultant. From the offer, it might already be clear whether you have reached KfW 55, which would make the energy consultation unnecessary if that is the only goal (this is how we handled it).
Construction supervision, by contrast, should be viewed independently of what was mentioned above. It means that an independent authority periodically checks whether everything is done correctly on site—but only spot checks, not continuous monitoring. These checks focus solely on energy-related aspects. For example, they will not check whether a wall is crooked. As mentioned, KfW reimburses 50% of these energy-related inspections.
Beyond that, most experts also offer normal spot-check construction supervision (e.g., checking for a crooked wall), which of course costs extra.
This type of supervision is generally the responsibility of a separate, independent architect. In our case, the architect is part of the construction company and therefore not impartial.
When I looked into construction supervision, I noted the following:
For services from the Homeowners' Protection Association, you need to become a member (annual fee about €150).
Membership includes a first free energy consultation.
You should bring your documents to this consultation (at least floor plans and the bill of quantities).
The expert can then perform a heating calculation and discuss options for achieving KfW 55.
Additional services at a reduced hourly rate of €85 (about $90) from the Association include:
- Reviewing the bill of quantities / comparing offers
- Applying for the KfW standard
- Calculations for KfW
- Construction supervision related to KfW
- Other construction supervision
- Final acceptance regarding KfW compliance
Approximately 2-3 site visits related to KfW (around €1,500 - €2,000) (?? seems expensive compared to normal construction supervision ??)
About 8-9 site visits for regular construction supervision (including the basement), each lasting up to 3 hours, costing around €250 (approximately $270) per visit.
Individual thermal bridge calculations: €100 (about $107) per bridge; a single-family home has around 12-14 thermal bridges.
Thermal bridge calculations yield better KfW values with a deduction factor of 0.05 instead of only 0.01 to 0.015, which is typical for standard calculations or flat-rate approaches (e.g., by general contractors).
Total costs for eligible services: €3,000 - €5,000 (50% reimbursed by KfW).
In principle, construction supervision is recommended, especially if you are uncertain, lack experience, or do not know anyone else who can help. Usually, architects and builders have no problem with supervisors. If they do, they might be unprofessional or hiding something.
In our case, the builder’s architect handled the thermal bridge calculations, as well as the KfW application and acceptance.
I have also read that sometimes many fewer or many more site visits are offered—you can influence this yourself. But the expert is only responsible during their site visits. Defects that occur between visits and remain undetected cannot be held against the expert nor are they likely to be found. Therefore, construction supervision is by no means a guarantee of 100% quality.
What you can do yourself is to be on site as often as possible and take many photos of all work.
This construction supervision for KfW (and as far as I know, the consultation as well) can be reimbursed up to 50% by the KfW Bank (however, there is a maximum amount), and you might need to submit an application to KfW before you can claim reimbursement for the energy consultation and construction supervision.
The consumer advice center also offers energy consultations. The value depends on the expert providing the service. They offer a free initial consultation by phone and then an on-site visit for around €15 (about $16).
The Homeowners' Protection Association also offers free initial consultations.
Fundamentally:
Anyone building a new home must comply with the 2016 Energy Saving Ordinance standards, which are now close to the KfW 55 standard. Meeting these standards could allow you to access a €100,000 (approximately $107,000) loan.
In our case, we achieved KfW 55 through an additional heat pump. Solar thermal or photovoltaic systems also contribute significantly to improving the energy balance. Most construction companies already have some experience with this.
So, the energy consultation itself is not necessarily required if your only goal is to meet the KfW 55 standard.
On the other hand, I think it makes sense to first get offers from several builders and then possibly discuss these offers with an energy consultant. From the offer, it might already be clear whether you have reached KfW 55, which would make the energy consultation unnecessary if that is the only goal (this is how we handled it).
Construction supervision, by contrast, should be viewed independently of what was mentioned above. It means that an independent authority periodically checks whether everything is done correctly on site—but only spot checks, not continuous monitoring. These checks focus solely on energy-related aspects. For example, they will not check whether a wall is crooked. As mentioned, KfW reimburses 50% of these energy-related inspections.
Beyond that, most experts also offer normal spot-check construction supervision (e.g., checking for a crooked wall), which of course costs extra.
This type of supervision is generally the responsibility of a separate, independent architect. In our case, the architect is part of the construction company and therefore not impartial.
When I looked into construction supervision, I noted the following:
For services from the Homeowners' Protection Association, you need to become a member (annual fee about €150).
Membership includes a first free energy consultation.
You should bring your documents to this consultation (at least floor plans and the bill of quantities).
The expert can then perform a heating calculation and discuss options for achieving KfW 55.
Additional services at a reduced hourly rate of €85 (about $90) from the Association include:
- Reviewing the bill of quantities / comparing offers
- Applying for the KfW standard
- Calculations for KfW
- Construction supervision related to KfW
- Other construction supervision
- Final acceptance regarding KfW compliance
Approximately 2-3 site visits related to KfW (around €1,500 - €2,000) (?? seems expensive compared to normal construction supervision ??)
About 8-9 site visits for regular construction supervision (including the basement), each lasting up to 3 hours, costing around €250 (approximately $270) per visit.
Individual thermal bridge calculations: €100 (about $107) per bridge; a single-family home has around 12-14 thermal bridges.
Thermal bridge calculations yield better KfW values with a deduction factor of 0.05 instead of only 0.01 to 0.015, which is typical for standard calculations or flat-rate approaches (e.g., by general contractors).
Total costs for eligible services: €3,000 - €5,000 (50% reimbursed by KfW).
In principle, construction supervision is recommended, especially if you are uncertain, lack experience, or do not know anyone else who can help. Usually, architects and builders have no problem with supervisors. If they do, they might be unprofessional or hiding something.
In our case, the builder’s architect handled the thermal bridge calculations, as well as the KfW application and acceptance.
I have also read that sometimes many fewer or many more site visits are offered—you can influence this yourself. But the expert is only responsible during their site visits. Defects that occur between visits and remain undetected cannot be held against the expert nor are they likely to be found. Therefore, construction supervision is by no means a guarantee of 100% quality.
What you can do yourself is to be on site as often as possible and take many photos of all work.
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