ᐅ House extends above ground level – how much soil can be backfilled (with shallow basement)?
Created on: 15 Oct 2022 19:11
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Machu Picchu
Hello everyone,
we are now in the final phase of our house construction.
Because the sewage system on our property is not far below ground level and we did not install a sewage lift system, our basement was only excavated to a shallow depth.
The ceiling height of the basement rooms is 2.50m (8 feet 2 inches), as these areas are intended to be living spaces, unlike the neighboring houses, whose basement heights are lower.
As a result, our front door and the two patio doors are positioned much higher than those of the neighboring houses. In the next few days, soil will be filled up to the level of the terrace and front doors.
I do not want this to turn into a discussion about different construction methods; instead, I am looking for advice on how to best handle this somewhat unusual situation.
First, some photos:
Marked in red are the two patio doors. Soil will be filled up to just below these patio doors, except, of course, at light wells and shafts. The terrace will be paved around the corner, following the two indicated patio doors (because we wanted two sunny sides on the terrace for different times of the day). To the left of the single-leaf patio door (where the exterior plaster ends), a retaining wall will be built from the terrace level down to the ground.
This is a front view. On the left, the construction staircase leads up to the entrance door. The front door is at the same level as the two patio doors.
Here is the view from the back.
This is the view from the back toward the front door.
And here is another rear view including the neighboring houses.
As planned, as mentioned, soil will be filled up to the level of the house and terrace doors, and at this level the garden will be designed on the side of the large double patio door as well as behind the house, with steep slopes created just before the property boundary.
On the front door side, soil will also be filled up to front door level.
Toward the "front" (the side with the single patio door), the street level will be reached by terrace-like steps with 2-3 slope terraces supported by walls/granite.
Our concern now is: if we fill soil all around the house at door level on the side with the double patio door, at the back, and on the front door side, our garden height will be so high that, compared to the neighbors, our house will stand out significantly due to the very elevated ground level.
We are now considering ways to soften this.
One idea is to fill soil to door level only at the terrace wrapping the corner and directly at the front door, and to fill soil, for example, 50cm (20 inches) below door level everywhere else.
This way, the garden level would not be so dramatically higher than the neighbors’.
The problem with this is that we would partially expose the "basement" and areas without exterior plaster would become visible. We would likely need to hire a plasterer on our own to plaster additional areas and paint them with gray base paint. Time is tight because the soil will be delivered for filling within the next days/weeks. How long would such plastering take and what would it approximately cost?
Question to the forum: What do you think about this? Do you have other solutions? Or are our concerns unfounded?
Thank you very much in advance for any advice.
we are now in the final phase of our house construction.
Because the sewage system on our property is not far below ground level and we did not install a sewage lift system, our basement was only excavated to a shallow depth.
The ceiling height of the basement rooms is 2.50m (8 feet 2 inches), as these areas are intended to be living spaces, unlike the neighboring houses, whose basement heights are lower.
As a result, our front door and the two patio doors are positioned much higher than those of the neighboring houses. In the next few days, soil will be filled up to the level of the terrace and front doors.
I do not want this to turn into a discussion about different construction methods; instead, I am looking for advice on how to best handle this somewhat unusual situation.
First, some photos:
Marked in red are the two patio doors. Soil will be filled up to just below these patio doors, except, of course, at light wells and shafts. The terrace will be paved around the corner, following the two indicated patio doors (because we wanted two sunny sides on the terrace for different times of the day). To the left of the single-leaf patio door (where the exterior plaster ends), a retaining wall will be built from the terrace level down to the ground.
This is a front view. On the left, the construction staircase leads up to the entrance door. The front door is at the same level as the two patio doors.
Here is the view from the back.
This is the view from the back toward the front door.
And here is another rear view including the neighboring houses.
As planned, as mentioned, soil will be filled up to the level of the house and terrace doors, and at this level the garden will be designed on the side of the large double patio door as well as behind the house, with steep slopes created just before the property boundary.
On the front door side, soil will also be filled up to front door level.
Toward the "front" (the side with the single patio door), the street level will be reached by terrace-like steps with 2-3 slope terraces supported by walls/granite.
Our concern now is: if we fill soil all around the house at door level on the side with the double patio door, at the back, and on the front door side, our garden height will be so high that, compared to the neighbors, our house will stand out significantly due to the very elevated ground level.
We are now considering ways to soften this.
One idea is to fill soil to door level only at the terrace wrapping the corner and directly at the front door, and to fill soil, for example, 50cm (20 inches) below door level everywhere else.
This way, the garden level would not be so dramatically higher than the neighbors’.
The problem with this is that we would partially expose the "basement" and areas without exterior plaster would become visible. We would likely need to hire a plasterer on our own to plaster additional areas and paint them with gray base paint. Time is tight because the soil will be delivered for filling within the next days/weeks. How long would such plastering take and what would it approximately cost?
Question to the forum: What do you think about this? Do you have other solutions? Or are our concerns unfounded?
Thank you very much in advance for any advice.
Machu Picchu schrieb:
The terrain elevation is shown on the plans (see earlier posts). I would first have to prove that it is impossible to achieve, which is probably not the case. And the contract clearly states that exterior landscaping is not included.... I never said this would be easy, and everyone here has already pointed out that you approved the situation yourselves and are now holding the bag. The question is whether a terrain elevation is actually feasible without complications. In this case, local neighborhood regulations (e.g., shading, nuisance) might come into play, and it’s worth checking if there are any restrictions on terrain elevation according to the zoning plan (building permit / planning permission).
So far, we’ve only seen your own rough sketches, right? The question is whether it is clearly understandable to a layperson what costs and drawbacks this might entail, and if poor advice is to blame here.
I’m not a lawyer, and the chances of winning something in court are probably low—only if some regulations have been violated or if continuing construction as planned becomes impossible. The more reasons you find why this is a disaster, the more leverage you have to use. I would first try to express your concerns to the general contractor without involving a lawyer or put a lot of pressure on them (depending on which approach is more effective). Usually, the best outcome in such cases is agreeing on additional services to be provided. This doesn’t hurt the general contractor as much if they are still on site and helps you the most.
S
SaniererNRW12316 Oct 2022 15:21I just enthusiastically read through the thread. I would summarize the last 16 pages as follows:
1. Money for the lifting station should be saved
2. General contractor (GC) with a low-cost offer was sought
3. GC proposal with high-rise planning was approved 1:1 by the client = thread starter
==> The result is that the house construction ended up costing about as much as building a basement with a lifting station at a normal level – probably even significantly more expensive at present. On top of that, you can pee on a few neighbors from your garden. Terrain shaping will likely be a poorly usable disaster (cutting into slopes causes a much more expensive plot loss) or an expensive affair. Stormwater drainage towards lower neighboring plots is also complex. And the GC delivered exactly what was ordered: a cheap house.
My only suggestion: take the current situation to a landscape gardener (and do not pile up clay soil — such soil is not suitable for the plot; there is a reason you are getting it for free). Also, consider tripling your €30,000 budget.
1. Money for the lifting station should be saved
2. General contractor (GC) with a low-cost offer was sought
3. GC proposal with high-rise planning was approved 1:1 by the client = thread starter
==> The result is that the house construction ended up costing about as much as building a basement with a lifting station at a normal level – probably even significantly more expensive at present. On top of that, you can pee on a few neighbors from your garden. Terrain shaping will likely be a poorly usable disaster (cutting into slopes causes a much more expensive plot loss) or an expensive affair. Stormwater drainage towards lower neighboring plots is also complex. And the GC delivered exactly what was ordered: a cheap house.
My only suggestion: take the current situation to a landscape gardener (and do not pile up clay soil — such soil is not suitable for the plot; there is a reason you are getting it for free). Also, consider tripling your €30,000 budget.
K a t j a schrieb:
The question is whether a terrain elevation is actually possible just like that. BayBO allows 2 meters (6.6 feet).
K a t j a schrieb:
The more reasons you find why it’s a disaster, However, I have the feeling that the original poster doesn’t actually perceive it as a disaster. To me, the focus on raising the terrace area without any impact on the neighboring areas (not the neighbors along the street) is very clear.
One meter (3.3 feet) seems unproblematic at first, even without retaining walls, since the surrounding area has also been built up. I only see the connection between the different areas as quite mixed, especially in the area of the proposed terrace, since the neighbor’s land there seems to be level.
M
Machu Picchu16 Oct 2022 15:27Myrna_Loy schrieb:
Just to clarify: The missing 2 meters come from the 1 meter excavated for the basement plus the elevation of the house? So basically, you will only be about 1 meter higher than the local standard? It feels like we would be about 1.30m (4.3 feet) higher than usual in the area, meaning higher than the neighbor’s level, if we were to add the full 2 meters (6.6 feet) of fill as originally planned — which, however, is continuously being advised against here.
Myrna_Loy schrieb:
A 1 meter (3.3 feet) slope all around is not too problematic and can be landscaped nicely. But the substructure of the hill will be expensive, so I would ask the general contractor why they chose not to use an excavation pit instead of removing 1 meter. On natural soil, you would have significantly fewer costs and concerns. About 1 meter (3.3 feet) was excavated to allow the “basement” to extend approximately 80 cm (31.5 inches) below ground level. The topsoil that was removed is stored at the back of the property and can be reused. What exactly is meant by the “substructure” of the hill? We do know that compacted material must be placed underneath any future terrace.
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Myrna_Loy16 Oct 2022 15:33Machu Picchu schrieb:
It feels like we would be about 1.30m (4 feet 3 inches) higher than the local average, meaning higher than the neighbor, if we were to raise the full 2 meters (6 feet 7 inches) as originally planned, which is continuously being advised against here.
About 1 meter (3 feet 3 inches) was excavated to allow the "basement" to go approximately 80 cm (31 inches) below ground level. The topsoil that was removed is piled at the back of the property and can be reused. What exactly is meant by the "substructure" of the mound? We understand that compacted material must be placed under any potential terrace. Usually, you only dig a pit for the basement plus some clearance space. You don’t excavate the entire area down to the basement slab level. That would be almost nonsensical. If you add two meters (6 feet 7 inches) of soil, you end up with a loose mound compared to undisturbed ground, which is not fully load-bearing and can easily be washed away. When you work soil with a spade for the first time on a lawn, it’s very hard. After filling and compacting a hole with excavated material, it remains much easier to dig at that spot. You simply can’t compact 2 meters (6 feet 7 inches) of soil to the same firmness as natural ground, even with heavy machinery.
I also suspect that dealing with a general contractor involves a lot of hassle, often requiring a lawyer. I think my first step would be to consult a landscape gardener to get an initial assessment of what’s possible, what you want, and how much it might cost.
But again, a reminder: we are amateurs here and this is just an impression from a few photos and drawings 🙂 The landscape gardener could probably offer more ideas and help estimate which options are worth pursuing and which are not.
Machu Picchu schrieb:I was thinking more of a balcony with a narrower staircase on one side. I can imagine several options: either a larger balcony with no traditional patio (but I would still want a staircase down to the garden), or a smaller balcony with a bigger patio below, or almost no balcony and mostly stairs. The idea here might be that this could be cheaper, and you’d be able to use more of the garden, compared to filling in everything up to the patio doors plus patio, which would then require steep slopes and retaining structures.
I find it hard to imagine a staircase as wide as the double patio doors – would it have to connect directly to the patio doors?
But again, a reminder: we are amateurs here and this is just an impression from a few photos and drawings 🙂 The landscape gardener could probably offer more ideas and help estimate which options are worth pursuing and which are not.
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