ᐅ How can you bypass energy-saving regulations and avoid bureaucratic hassle?
Created on: 8 Jul 2017 19:26
F
Farilo
Hello everyone,
Is it possible to build without following the energy saving regulations?
I want to avoid unnecessary insulation and similar measures. At the same time, I want to maintain the great indoor climate that exists in this building from 1959.
Although it was barely insulated, the house remains completely dry and the indoor climate is excellent.
I am planning to build an extension that fits this outstanding indoor climate. All these modern insulation methods are not helpful in this case.
Does anyone have some kind of exemption from the energy saving regulation and can share how they obtained it?
Thanks in advance.
Best regards
Is it possible to build without following the energy saving regulations?
I want to avoid unnecessary insulation and similar measures. At the same time, I want to maintain the great indoor climate that exists in this building from 1959.
Although it was barely insulated, the house remains completely dry and the indoor climate is excellent.
I am planning to build an extension that fits this outstanding indoor climate. All these modern insulation methods are not helpful in this case.
Does anyone have some kind of exemption from the energy saving regulation and can share how they obtained it?
Thanks in advance.
Best regards
One should keep in mind that this gentleman’s profession is to inspect defective facades. He observes a concentration of problems on ETICS facades (though ETICS is always equated with EPS, which is incorrect). So, they are all considered bad. However, whether actually 10%, 1%, or 0.01% of the facades have these problems, the gentleman simply does not know. And how could he?
What surprises me here is the assumption that grandma’s house is so much better. That it has a nicer climate. I consider that nonsense! At grandma’s, it’s always boiling hot in winter when you sit too close to the “glowing” radiators that try to keep the house warm. The air is bone dry, strong convection adds to this. Ceramic humidifiers are then hung on the radiators to add some moisture to the room, so the nosebleeds and dry eyes stop.
The basement is cold and damp, musty. You absolutely cannot store textiles or documents there. The pantry is nicely cool, but there is mold on the exterior wall. The guest toilet is the same because it has no radiator. The window is naturally left tilted open permanently. Guests prefer to enter there wearing their winter coats, otherwise their glasses freeze up. Comfort is terrible.
She also loses living space because of the radiators; in new construction, costs are calculated at over €1700 per square meter (about $185 per square foot).
The pitched roof is not insulated. In summer it’s extremely hot up there, in winter freezing cold. Pests have free access. The space is therefore unusable. If the roof were insulated, it would at least be a high-quality storage space as a first step — as it is, it’s simply wasted space.
The gain in usable area alone would be worth tens of thousands, independent of any energy savings.
But yes, this is a troll. Or at least a troublemaker who decided to complain as a default before even knowing anything about the topic. Walls are said to be 60cm (24 inches) thick, hazardous waste is supposed to go on the facade, and the authorities are planning some huge conspiracy before anyone has ever heard of this gentleman.
This has nothing to do with dead fish in the river; some simply have too much time to get upset about nonsense that hasn’t even happened yet and about which they know nothing, except the portrayal by Mr. Tin-Hat.
Why do you make other people’s problems your own? What do Mr. Fischer’s activities have to do with you?
His statements are one-sided and shortened. He does not have a broad market perspective but elevates his individual experience to a universal truth.
Besides, he is not solution-oriented when he demands “abolition,” which is nonsense. Above all, he criticizes insulation in existing buildings of poor quality. Of course, he finds many of those because they are cheap. But that is extremely narrow and no justification to question fundamental principles.
Now I have to laugh. Where do you or Mr. Fischer tackle anything at the root? I don’t see it. You are looking for ways to circumvent the problem, which solves exactly nothing except your own problem.
That phrase was already outdated when I wore black as a teenager.
What surprises me here is the assumption that grandma’s house is so much better. That it has a nicer climate. I consider that nonsense! At grandma’s, it’s always boiling hot in winter when you sit too close to the “glowing” radiators that try to keep the house warm. The air is bone dry, strong convection adds to this. Ceramic humidifiers are then hung on the radiators to add some moisture to the room, so the nosebleeds and dry eyes stop.
The basement is cold and damp, musty. You absolutely cannot store textiles or documents there. The pantry is nicely cool, but there is mold on the exterior wall. The guest toilet is the same because it has no radiator. The window is naturally left tilted open permanently. Guests prefer to enter there wearing their winter coats, otherwise their glasses freeze up. Comfort is terrible.
She also loses living space because of the radiators; in new construction, costs are calculated at over €1700 per square meter (about $185 per square foot).
The pitched roof is not insulated. In summer it’s extremely hot up there, in winter freezing cold. Pests have free access. The space is therefore unusable. If the roof were insulated, it would at least be a high-quality storage space as a first step — as it is, it’s simply wasted space.
The gain in usable area alone would be worth tens of thousands, independent of any energy savings.
But yes, this is a troll. Or at least a troublemaker who decided to complain as a default before even knowing anything about the topic. Walls are said to be 60cm (24 inches) thick, hazardous waste is supposed to go on the facade, and the authorities are planning some huge conspiracy before anyone has ever heard of this gentleman.
This has nothing to do with dead fish in the river; some simply have too much time to get upset about nonsense that hasn’t even happened yet and about which they know nothing, except the portrayal by Mr. Tin-Hat.
Farilo schrieb:
Hello Alex,
what arbitrariness? Well, the arbitrariness of certain decisions by authorities. Mr. Fischer cites (with evidence) that the building department sometimes decides arbitrarily, only to later backtrack.
If you have not yet experienced arbitrariness in public administration, I’m happy for you.
Why do you make other people’s problems your own? What do Mr. Fischer’s activities have to do with you?
Whether someone who argues very well for his (and many others') interests can be called a troublemaker is beyond my knowledge.
His statements are one-sided and shortened. He does not have a broad market perspective but elevates his individual experience to a universal truth.
Besides, he is not solution-oriented when he demands “abolition,” which is nonsense. Above all, he criticizes insulation in existing buildings of poor quality. Of course, he finds many of those because they are cheap. But that is extremely narrow and no justification to question fundamental principles.
There will always be people who accept everything put in their way, no matter how ridiculous. And that’s a good thing. Others, on the other hand, tackle the root of the problem and try to eliminate it.
Now I have to laugh. Where do you or Mr. Fischer tackle anything at the root? I don’t see it. You are looking for ways to circumvent the problem, which solves exactly nothing except your own problem.
Only dead fish swim with the current.
That phrase was already outdated when I wore black as a teenager.
T
toxicmolotof9 Jul 2017 08:55I don’t know how large your house will ultimately be, but for the insulation to cost you 40,000 euros, according to the energy saving regulations, that means a monthly saving of about 166 euros, plus interest maybe around 230 euros. In a large house, partly old building and partly new construction, I don’t find this target unrealistic, considering that my in-laws have heating costs of about 350 euros, while mine are only 50 euros. And my insulation didn’t cost anywhere near 40,000 euros.
So the margin for you will be very tight, no matter how you look at it.
So the margin for you will be very tight, no matter how you look at it.
First of all, I want to apologize for apparently stepping on some toes here. I didn’t realize that some people were so sensitive about this. Sorry for that.
Furthermore, I would appreciate it if some of you could calm down a bit so the slight tendency toward personal insults stops. That’s really not necessary.
If you (the thermal insulation supporters) are happy with your homes, then there’s nothing better! Great! I’m happy for you.
As for me, I definitely will not live in a thermal envelope. Whether my approach is better, worse, or whatever doesn’t really matter to you. I simply don’t want to spend money on what I consider unnecessary insulation materials.
I’m not against insulation in general! But in my opinion, it has to make sense and ideally pay off in the long run. Insulating a facade with a meter-thick layer of polystyrene or whatever just doesn’t fit my idea of a house. Regardless of whether it’s economical or not.
I appreciate you sharing your experiences with me. That’s very valuable, one way or another. What I’ll do with this new knowledge remains to be seen.
Financially, you don’t need to worry about me. As I’ve already mentioned, I bought a 1000 sqm (about 10,700 sq ft) property including an existing building in Hamburg for under 100,000 euros. Originally, I planned a total investment of about 600,000 euros (house and land). So I am currently within budget. Either way. And without monthly payments for the rest of my life.
Nevertheless, I want to pay a fair price for a fair service. And you only get that price-performance ratio if you do some research and don’t just fall for the first offer.
I will look into different materials... Maybe I’ll find a nice stone or type of wood that I like, and that also has a good insulation factor, so I can largely avoid the insulation I dislike.
My worst-case scenario doesn’t look so bad either. If all else fails, I’ll do it like most here and use massive amounts of insulation. It could be worse.
But until then, I’ll try to avoid it as far as it makes sense.
Furthermore, I would appreciate it if some of you could calm down a bit so the slight tendency toward personal insults stops. That’s really not necessary.
If you (the thermal insulation supporters) are happy with your homes, then there’s nothing better! Great! I’m happy for you.
As for me, I definitely will not live in a thermal envelope. Whether my approach is better, worse, or whatever doesn’t really matter to you. I simply don’t want to spend money on what I consider unnecessary insulation materials.
I’m not against insulation in general! But in my opinion, it has to make sense and ideally pay off in the long run. Insulating a facade with a meter-thick layer of polystyrene or whatever just doesn’t fit my idea of a house. Regardless of whether it’s economical or not.
I appreciate you sharing your experiences with me. That’s very valuable, one way or another. What I’ll do with this new knowledge remains to be seen.
Financially, you don’t need to worry about me. As I’ve already mentioned, I bought a 1000 sqm (about 10,700 sq ft) property including an existing building in Hamburg for under 100,000 euros. Originally, I planned a total investment of about 600,000 euros (house and land). So I am currently within budget. Either way. And without monthly payments for the rest of my life.
Nevertheless, I want to pay a fair price for a fair service. And you only get that price-performance ratio if you do some research and don’t just fall for the first offer.
I will look into different materials... Maybe I’ll find a nice stone or type of wood that I like, and that also has a good insulation factor, so I can largely avoid the insulation I dislike.
My worst-case scenario doesn’t look so bad either. If all else fails, I’ll do it like most here and use massive amounts of insulation. It could be worse.
But until then, I’ll try to avoid it as far as it makes sense.
Joedreck schrieb:
You don’t have to circumvent the energy-saving regulations. Just use a well-insulating brick for the extension. The rest of the facade will be repainted.
The roof (new and old) will be insulated with cellulose. This can also be done as a DIY project and is worthwhile after just a few years. I didn’t know you could insulate the roof with cellulose. Thanks for the info. I’ll look into that.
Joedreck schrieb:
What I also recommend (depending on the age of the windows) is either to replace the glass panes on the east side (often good value for money) or install new windows. For very new windows, I recommend ones with trickle vents to prevent mold. Some of the windows were already replaced 3 years ago. I’m not sure exactly what type they are—definitely uPVC frames. I’ll check tomorrow to see exactly what kind they are. The rest are still the original wooden windows and definitely need to be replaced. Thanks for your advice on that.
Joedreck schrieb:
Regarding the heating system, I’d be relaxed at first. If it’s a weather-compensated system (you can tell by the external sensor), I don’t think you need to do anything. However, I don’t know how much longer it will last. It will manage the extension as well since
1. in the past, systems were designed with plenty of reserve capacity, and
2. you will have insulated the roof and windows. I don’t recall that detail either. I know the heating system was replaced in the late 1980s (gas). Once the extension planning is finished, I will definitely plan for a new heating system (for both the main house and the extension).
The electrical system also needs a complete overhaul. Luckily, I have a great electrician (a childhood friend) on hand.
Joedreck schrieb:
I don’t know Mr. Fischer personally. However, your concerns and fears are quite common. I don’t know him either. I "met" him this morning (2-3 a.m.) LOL
Joedreck schrieb:
On the other hand, I’ve only had good experiences with insulation. The house becomes more comfortable and cozy. There are no more cold walls that radiate cold. Also, you can keep heating at a low level 24/7 without wasting energy.
In summer, even the attic stays cool.
Is it cost-effective? For many measures, not if you hire contractors.
But for a house, it’s not just about the wallet; it’s also about how comfortable you really feel. Very interesting!
Yes, comfort! THAT is the main thing. Luckily, money plays a secondary role for me in that regard.
Joedreck schrieb:
I suspect (and it’s really only a suspicion) that you bought the house intending or needing to renovate and extend it on a tight budget.
You should really consider doing some of the work yourself.
Regards, Joe I’m definitely very frugal! I save wherever I can, but never on food or vacations.
Everything always has to make sense...
Financially, everything is excellent.
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