Hello everyone,
I realize I’m starting to fall into self-pity a bit.
We bought a house that we wanted to demolish and then have a new duplex built.
From the very beginning, it's been nothing but problems:
1. Swallow nests delayed the demolition by 2 months
2. The soil survey showed soft and uneven ground. Result: pile foundation
3. The pile foundation required aerial image analysis for risk assessment regarding unexploded ordnance
4. A barn was bombed 60m (200 feet) away, so part of our property automatically fell into the risk zone
5. Borehole drilling was mandatory... and sure enough... a suspicious object at about 4.5m (15 feet) depth
Move-in was planned for the end of December. Our living arrangement is based on a temporary lease only until the end of January 2017.
Now it looks like it will be more like June.
Basically, anything could be in the ground... an old pipe, a garden fence, a piece of steel beam...
What’s striking is that the suspicious point lies on the imagined line between the house connection and the heavy-duty power supply that was once installed at the house, about 1m (3 feet) below the old basement ceiling level.
To make matters worse, everything has already been fully backfilled, so now we have to dig 4m (13 feet) instead of 1m (3 feet).
What would you do? Surely the sensible option is to have the object excavated, right?
The company recommends this because without 100% certainty, there is no engineering approval for the pile foundation.
Unfortunately, the previous owners have passed away and their children know nothing about any construction work done on the old house.
Currently, it looks like our earthworks contractor will excavate the object under the supervision of an explosives expert (odd name). This supervision will cost me roughly €500.
What would be a realistic price per cubic meter for excavation, storing the material on my property, and then compacting the spoil?
We would need to excavate roughly 1.5m x 1.5m (5 feet x 5 feet) at about 4.5m (15 feet) depth. Of course, a slope will be included, so the top area might be about 5m x 5m (16 feet x 16 feet).
I’m curious to hear your thoughts. Does anyone have experience? Any price indications so I don’t get overcharged?
Would a builder’s all-risk insurance cover this type of financial loss by any chance?
Best regards,
titoz
I realize I’m starting to fall into self-pity a bit.
We bought a house that we wanted to demolish and then have a new duplex built.
From the very beginning, it's been nothing but problems:
1. Swallow nests delayed the demolition by 2 months
2. The soil survey showed soft and uneven ground. Result: pile foundation
3. The pile foundation required aerial image analysis for risk assessment regarding unexploded ordnance
4. A barn was bombed 60m (200 feet) away, so part of our property automatically fell into the risk zone
5. Borehole drilling was mandatory... and sure enough... a suspicious object at about 4.5m (15 feet) depth
Move-in was planned for the end of December. Our living arrangement is based on a temporary lease only until the end of January 2017.
Now it looks like it will be more like June.
Basically, anything could be in the ground... an old pipe, a garden fence, a piece of steel beam...
What’s striking is that the suspicious point lies on the imagined line between the house connection and the heavy-duty power supply that was once installed at the house, about 1m (3 feet) below the old basement ceiling level.
To make matters worse, everything has already been fully backfilled, so now we have to dig 4m (13 feet) instead of 1m (3 feet).
What would you do? Surely the sensible option is to have the object excavated, right?
The company recommends this because without 100% certainty, there is no engineering approval for the pile foundation.
Unfortunately, the previous owners have passed away and their children know nothing about any construction work done on the old house.
Currently, it looks like our earthworks contractor will excavate the object under the supervision of an explosives expert (odd name). This supervision will cost me roughly €500.
What would be a realistic price per cubic meter for excavation, storing the material on my property, and then compacting the spoil?
We would need to excavate roughly 1.5m x 1.5m (5 feet x 5 feet) at about 4.5m (15 feet) depth. Of course, a slope will be included, so the top area might be about 5m x 5m (16 feet x 16 feet).
I’m curious to hear your thoughts. Does anyone have experience? Any price indications so I don’t get overcharged?
Would a builder’s all-risk insurance cover this type of financial loss by any chance?
Best regards,
titoz
B
Bauexperte5 Oct 2016 12:26Hello,
Everything must be done to remove the "object" at depth. Otherwise, not only will there be no approval for the required pile foundation, but your preferred contractor will also not proceed without guarantees that the site is safe.
Regards, Bauexperte
titoz schrieb:It is well known that breeding seasons are protected.
1. Swallow nests delayed our demolition for 2 months
titoz schrieb:This is not unusual in certain areas in Germany; around Cologne, archaeologists can stop construction work if something unexpected turns up.
2. The soil survey showed soft and inhomogeneous soil. Result: piled foundation
3. The foundation engineer requested aerial image analysis for risk assessment regarding unexploded ordnance
4. A barn was bombed 60m (200 feet) away, so part of our property automatically falls within the risk zone.
5. Borehole investigation was mandatory... and sure enough... suspicious object found at approx. 4.5m (15 feet) depth.
titoz schrieb:I don’t quite understand that—how do you expect demolition and new construction to be completed so quickly? It’s already October…
Move-in was planned for the end of December. The rental contract is only valid until the end of January 2017. Now it looks like it will be more like June.
titoz schrieb:No question there 🙄
What would you do? Surely the sensible option is to have the object excavated, right? The company recommends it, as there will be no technical approval for this pile foundation without 100% certainty.
Everything must be done to remove the "object" at depth. Otherwise, not only will there be no approval for the required pile foundation, but your preferred contractor will also not proceed without guarantees that the site is safe.
titoz schrieb:If they even lived there during the war at all.
Unfortunately, the previous owners have passed away and the children don’t know anything about structural work done on the old house.
titoz schrieb:Where does the assumption come from that all contractors are dishonest and all builders are kind people? Ever heard that people tend to think of others as badly as they think of themselves?
Does anyone have price information so I don’t get overcharged?
titoz schrieb:Why don’t you do the excavation yourself? You can buy or rent some construction fencing and a portable toilet online at a reasonable price. Then you could beat your own calculation 😉
I just got a call from the excavation company… they seem pretty relaxed if they’re calling at 9:15 pm 🙂
They want €3400.
- €350 for site setup, even though they only have to travel 4km (2.5 miles) and set up excavator and compactor.
- €1000 for excavation
- €2000 for backfilling and compaction
They estimated 120 m³ (160 cubic yards). That’s about €25 per m³ (cubic yard), which is quite expensive compared to the prices mentioned above. But I calculated the volume that really needs to be moved.
Approximately 4m (13 feet) deep and roughly 5x5m (16x16 feet) surface area to excavate. Since there will be slopes on all sides, I just took the volume of a pyramid: V = 1/3 * a² * h = 33.3 m³ (43.6 cubic yards).
But they calculated about 5x5m surface and 5m (16 feet) deep on all sides = 125 m³ (163.6 cubic yards)… a bit unrealistic and too much.
If they charge me for about 40 m³ (52 cubic yards) at €20 per m³ (cubic yard), then with site setup it would be €1150.
titoz schrieb:No, but if a bomb is found, the government covers the costs.
Does a builder’s all-risk insurance perhaps cover this kind of financial loss?
Regards, Bauexperte
Hello everyone,
Thank you for your input.
After consulting with the ordnance disposal experts, it turned out that we only need about 20 m³ (26 cubic yards) of excavation.
The earthworks contractor agreed to this, but now his pricing is very different:
Before (125 m³ / 164 cubic yards):
- €350 site setup
- €1,000 excavation + storage = €8 / m³ (0.35 / cubic yard)
- €2,000 backfilling and compaction = €16 / m³ (0.59 / cubic yard)
= €3,400
Now (20 m³ / 26 cubic yards):
- €200 site setup
- €340 excavation + storage = €17 / m³ (0.65 / cubic yard)
- €340 backfilling and compaction = €17 / m³ (0.65 / cubic yard)
- €860 excavator operator and supervision
= €1,740
His argument was that since much less material has to be moved now, the usual minimum daily rate for the excavator is €1,600, meaning he charges this rate regardless.
Is this common? Of course, we will go with him because he is very flexible with timing and can start directly on Wednesday, but it seems strange to me that the pricing is so different.
I’m not very familiar with the construction industry, so I’m curious about this daily rate.
Best regards,
Tito
Thank you for your input.
After consulting with the ordnance disposal experts, it turned out that we only need about 20 m³ (26 cubic yards) of excavation.
The earthworks contractor agreed to this, but now his pricing is very different:
Before (125 m³ / 164 cubic yards):
- €350 site setup
- €1,000 excavation + storage = €8 / m³ (0.35 / cubic yard)
- €2,000 backfilling and compaction = €16 / m³ (0.59 / cubic yard)
= €3,400
Now (20 m³ / 26 cubic yards):
- €200 site setup
- €340 excavation + storage = €17 / m³ (0.65 / cubic yard)
- €340 backfilling and compaction = €17 / m³ (0.65 / cubic yard)
- €860 excavator operator and supervision
= €1,740
His argument was that since much less material has to be moved now, the usual minimum daily rate for the excavator is €1,600, meaning he charges this rate regardless.
Is this common? Of course, we will go with him because he is very flexible with timing and can start directly on Wednesday, but it seems strange to me that the pricing is so different.
I’m not very familiar with the construction industry, so I’m curious about this daily rate.
Best regards,
Tito