Hello everyone,
I’m looking for some advice and opinions.
We want to build a single-family house using solid masonry construction, stone on stone, with a basement (waterproof concrete shell), and we already own the plot.
Since we are not professionals, it seemed best to hire a general contractor.
We contacted several and had some designs made, but they were only usable at first glance.
Because we have a very restrictive zoning plan and a tight building envelope, it is especially important that what is allowed is implemented as optimally as possible.
Since a fixed price is important to us, we did not consider hiring an architect initially.
The general contractors apparently always had a draftsman on hand who put the designs on paper.
Besides the usual “drama” from most providers regarding intellectual property rights to the plans, we had one general contractor still in the running.
This contractor was said to build very “efficient and functional,” which from an engineering perspective might be fine, but in terms of appearance, aesthetics, and comfort, it was more like “no, thanks.”
Flexibility during construction is also important to me. I have some materials available that I want to provide to the craftsmen on site, as they are already owned, and I would also like to know exactly what we will get for our money.
I no longer want to hear statements like “It will turn out nice, we’ll take care of it... we build according to standards such as DIN… etc.” I was also tired of repeatedly receiving plans that had been changed by the contractor without informing us or pointing out the changes (for example, a door suddenly became a sliding door, or the ceiling height changed).
When I asked about that, the answers were like: “The current ceiling height is sufficient, he finds a sliding door more visually appealing, blah blah blah.”
A few weeks ago, on a business trip, I saw a house that perfectly matched our ideas. I rang the doorbell and asked if I could take a look at this great house (about the same size as our plan)... I was allowed to... and it almost blew me away. Open, bright, modern, straight lines, almost perfect… so it’s possible after all, but it’s an architect-designed house.
The architect (a close friend of the owners) lives a few houses away and came by immediately. Because I was so enthusiastic, he offered to review our documents (including the building regulations), which I sent right away.
The next day he called and said: “If we like the house that much, we should forget our previous plans completely... (wrong proportions, narrow, cramped, etc.).”
Since the architect lives on the other side of Germany, he unfortunately cannot supervise us. But he adapted the great floor plan from his friend to our house design, so we now have a submission-ready plan based on our wishes, but still no one to build the house.
The architect told us he knows some construction companies that only build the shell but also offer to manage the entire construction phase.
These companies would handle calls for bids and collect offers, organize the processes, supervise, etc.
The respective contracts with the tradespeople would have to be signed by the client (homeowner) directly.
Drawbacks: There is more work for the homeowner because you have to be very clear about your choices (which heating system, brand, model, etc.).
Advantages:
You can choose the companies yourself and have much more personal contact with the tradespeople, and you can make small adjustments directly in consultation during the process, in case something was forgotten in the planning.
Now my questions for you:
1. Do you have experience with this approach? Both positive and negative.
2. How is the risk of meeting deadlines (house completion) handled? Is the completion date fixed by the contract with the construction management?
3. Which trades typically come after the shell construction (house standing with roof covered and windows installed)? Off the top of my head, I thought of:
- Screed installer
- Plasterer (interior and exterior – is that one trade?)
- Electrician
- Heating and plumbing
- Bathroom installer (???)
- Drywall installer
- Tiler/flooring installer
- Fireplace builder
- Painter
- Landscaping
- Garage (prefabricated)
- (Insulation, roller shutters I am not sure where to assign)
Have I forgotten anything, and which trades can or should be combined?
How does warranty work in cases where issues arise in borderline areas and each party blames the other?
4. What are typical costs for construction management? Is it a fixed amount or a percentage of the overall construction cost?
5. How do the costs compare to a general contractor, who understandably needs to make a profit (for which you would have the construction management costs here), but a general contractor with a guaranteed fixed price will also factor in a contingency buffer that you save here.
6. Did I forget anything important?
I know these are a lot of questions and I look forward to your answers.
Best regards
I’m looking for some advice and opinions.
We want to build a single-family house using solid masonry construction, stone on stone, with a basement (waterproof concrete shell), and we already own the plot.
Since we are not professionals, it seemed best to hire a general contractor.
We contacted several and had some designs made, but they were only usable at first glance.
Because we have a very restrictive zoning plan and a tight building envelope, it is especially important that what is allowed is implemented as optimally as possible.
Since a fixed price is important to us, we did not consider hiring an architect initially.
The general contractors apparently always had a draftsman on hand who put the designs on paper.
Besides the usual “drama” from most providers regarding intellectual property rights to the plans, we had one general contractor still in the running.
This contractor was said to build very “efficient and functional,” which from an engineering perspective might be fine, but in terms of appearance, aesthetics, and comfort, it was more like “no, thanks.”
Flexibility during construction is also important to me. I have some materials available that I want to provide to the craftsmen on site, as they are already owned, and I would also like to know exactly what we will get for our money.
I no longer want to hear statements like “It will turn out nice, we’ll take care of it... we build according to standards such as DIN… etc.” I was also tired of repeatedly receiving plans that had been changed by the contractor without informing us or pointing out the changes (for example, a door suddenly became a sliding door, or the ceiling height changed).
When I asked about that, the answers were like: “The current ceiling height is sufficient, he finds a sliding door more visually appealing, blah blah blah.”
A few weeks ago, on a business trip, I saw a house that perfectly matched our ideas. I rang the doorbell and asked if I could take a look at this great house (about the same size as our plan)... I was allowed to... and it almost blew me away. Open, bright, modern, straight lines, almost perfect… so it’s possible after all, but it’s an architect-designed house.
The architect (a close friend of the owners) lives a few houses away and came by immediately. Because I was so enthusiastic, he offered to review our documents (including the building regulations), which I sent right away.
The next day he called and said: “If we like the house that much, we should forget our previous plans completely... (wrong proportions, narrow, cramped, etc.).”
Since the architect lives on the other side of Germany, he unfortunately cannot supervise us. But he adapted the great floor plan from his friend to our house design, so we now have a submission-ready plan based on our wishes, but still no one to build the house.
The architect told us he knows some construction companies that only build the shell but also offer to manage the entire construction phase.
These companies would handle calls for bids and collect offers, organize the processes, supervise, etc.
The respective contracts with the tradespeople would have to be signed by the client (homeowner) directly.
Drawbacks: There is more work for the homeowner because you have to be very clear about your choices (which heating system, brand, model, etc.).
Advantages:
You can choose the companies yourself and have much more personal contact with the tradespeople, and you can make small adjustments directly in consultation during the process, in case something was forgotten in the planning.
Now my questions for you:
1. Do you have experience with this approach? Both positive and negative.
2. How is the risk of meeting deadlines (house completion) handled? Is the completion date fixed by the contract with the construction management?
3. Which trades typically come after the shell construction (house standing with roof covered and windows installed)? Off the top of my head, I thought of:
- Screed installer
- Plasterer (interior and exterior – is that one trade?)
- Electrician
- Heating and plumbing
- Bathroom installer (???)
- Drywall installer
- Tiler/flooring installer
- Fireplace builder
- Painter
- Landscaping
- Garage (prefabricated)
- (Insulation, roller shutters I am not sure where to assign)
Have I forgotten anything, and which trades can or should be combined?
How does warranty work in cases where issues arise in borderline areas and each party blames the other?
4. What are typical costs for construction management? Is it a fixed amount or a percentage of the overall construction cost?
5. How do the costs compare to a general contractor, who understandably needs to make a profit (for which you would have the construction management costs here), but a general contractor with a guaranteed fixed price will also factor in a contingency buffer that you save here.
6. Did I forget anything important?
I know these are a lot of questions and I look forward to your answers.
Best regards
Hello,
Good companies have no problem with well-informed homeowners! That is where the true difference between the wheat and the chaff becomes clear quite quickly.
This approach is neither convenient nor cheap, but it is the only correct one!
There are plenty of naive and uninformed homeowners. This is, for example, the basis of the “success strategy” of many large general contractors (GCs / main contractors).
They often install high-efficiency but sensitive heat pumps—which only work properly if the right model is chosen—in conditions that inevitably lead to a poor seasonal performance factor.
Once the damage is done, people sometimes try to find the free “cure-all” afterward in forums.
My sympathy is often quite limited in such cases.
Those who want the “best of the best” at discount prices end up with exactly what they deserve => poor quality!
Best regards
ranseier schrieb:That’s right, but doing this turns you into the “difficult customer = informed” and prevents you from blindly falling for any nonsense the salesperson tries to push on you.
...What you mean is that before I become a customer, I thoroughly check everything (or at least try to), and for many people this is off-putting and sometimes uncomfortable.
Good companies have no problem with well-informed homeowners! That is where the true difference between the wheat and the chaff becomes clear quite quickly.
This approach is neither convenient nor cheap, but it is the only correct one!
There are plenty of naive and uninformed homeowners. This is, for example, the basis of the “success strategy” of many large general contractors (GCs / main contractors).
They often install high-efficiency but sensitive heat pumps—which only work properly if the right model is chosen—in conditions that inevitably lead to a poor seasonal performance factor.
Once the damage is done, people sometimes try to find the free “cure-all” afterward in forums.
My sympathy is often quite limited in such cases.
Those who want the “best of the best” at discount prices end up with exactly what they deserve => poor quality!
Best regards
B
Bauexperte24 Jan 2012 00:48Hello,
I just noticed that too...
Mostly positive, as long as expectations and reality align.
You can set this by including a penalty clause in the contract award.
No, interior plastering and facade work are two different trades.
A bathroom requires a plumber, an electrician, a drywall installer, and a tiler; sometimes drywall installer and tiler can be the same person.
Prefabricated garage only if no connection to the house is planned!
Insulation = drywall installer, roller shutters = window trade + possibly electrician.
Foundation and facade workers, interior doors/carpenter, and stair builder.
Individually for each trade, typically 2 years; with maintenance contracts, e.g. for the heating system, up to 5 years.
Through an architect: 48% of the fee according to HOAI (levels 6 to 9), otherwise freelance construction managers charge about €80.00 to €110.00, depending on qualifications and negotiation skills.
A good 17–20%, which you won't really save but rather invest in better quality.
Best regards
ranseier schrieb:
Note: None of my actual questions have been answered yet
I just noticed that too...
ranseier schrieb:
Do you have any experience with such a process? (Both good and bad)
Mostly positive, as long as expectations and reality align.
ranseier schrieb:
How is the risk regarding meeting deadlines (completion of the house)? Is the date fixed in the contract with the construction management?
You can set this by including a penalty clause in the contract award.
ranseier schrieb:
Which trades are involved after the shell construction (house stands, roof is covered, windows installed)? I would think of:
Screed applicator, plasterer (interior and exterior – is that one trade?????)
No, interior plastering and facade work are two different trades.
ranseier schrieb:
Electrician, heating and plumbing, bathroom specialist (???), drywall installer
A bathroom requires a plumber, an electrician, a drywall installer, and a tiler; sometimes drywall installer and tiler can be the same person.
ranseier schrieb:
Tilers/flooring, chimney builder, painter, landscaping, garage (prefabricated)
Prefabricated garage only if no connection to the house is planned!
ranseier schrieb:
(Insulation, roller shutters I can’t assign right now)
Insulation = drywall installer, roller shutters = window trade + possibly electrician.
ranseier schrieb:
Did I forget something, and which trades can or should be combined?
Foundation and facade workers, interior doors/carpenter, and stair builder.
ranseier schrieb:
How is warranty handled in cases where the “border area” is unclear and everyone blames each other?
Individually for each trade, typically 2 years; with maintenance contracts, e.g. for the heating system, up to 5 years.
ranseier schrieb:
What are the approximate costs for construction management, and how are they calculated? Fixed fee or a percentage of the total construction cost?
Through an architect: 48% of the fee according to HOAI (levels 6 to 9), otherwise freelance construction managers charge about €80.00 to €110.00, depending on qualifications and negotiation skills.
ranseier schrieb:
What are the cost differences compared to a general contractor who understandably wants to make a profit (which would include construction management costs here), but would also include a “safety buffer” for a guaranteed fixed price, which would be missing here?
A good 17–20%, which you won't really save but rather invest in better quality.
Best regards
Hello everyone,
First of all, thank you for the responses.
@E.Curb
...no architect and general contractor (GC)
"Sort of." The architect is based in the Rhineland and has designed and refined the initial plan, which can now be submitted. The approval process takes about 3 weeks since no deviations from the development plan are involved. However, since we are building in Bavaria, he will not be overseeing the construction.
Now we still need someone to actually build the house.
I currently have a shell construction company lined up that will handle just the shell construction. Additionally, this company offers to manage the entire construction supervision. That means they would prepare the tenders based on our specifications, and we would sign the respective contracts directly with the individual trades. The construction supervision would also handle scheduling and coordination.
The details and terms will be discussed over the weekend.
That’s the plan... we’ll see how it goes.
@Bauexperte
Bavaria is not exactly nearby, but I just saw that you are from Grevenbroich. I grew up in GV (Neukirchen) and still visit occasionally... so we could have that conversation.
Regarding the calculation 6-9 HOAI 48% 48% of what exactly?
Regarding the warranty, only 2 years? These are fixed-price contracts (work contracts) with a 5-year warranty, aren’t they?
It’s clear anyway that I won’t actually save the 20%, as the money will be reinvested.
Today, I found space in the floor plan for a glass, walk-in wine climate cabinet. (I just need to figure out how to “sell” that idea to my wife...)
Best regards
First of all, thank you for the responses.
@E.Curb
...no architect and general contractor (GC)
"Sort of." The architect is based in the Rhineland and has designed and refined the initial plan, which can now be submitted. The approval process takes about 3 weeks since no deviations from the development plan are involved. However, since we are building in Bavaria, he will not be overseeing the construction.
Now we still need someone to actually build the house.
I currently have a shell construction company lined up that will handle just the shell construction. Additionally, this company offers to manage the entire construction supervision. That means they would prepare the tenders based on our specifications, and we would sign the respective contracts directly with the individual trades. The construction supervision would also handle scheduling and coordination.
The details and terms will be discussed over the weekend.
That’s the plan... we’ll see how it goes.
@Bauexperte
Bavaria is not exactly nearby, but I just saw that you are from Grevenbroich. I grew up in GV (Neukirchen) and still visit occasionally... so we could have that conversation.
Regarding the calculation 6-9 HOAI 48% 48% of what exactly?
Regarding the warranty, only 2 years? These are fixed-price contracts (work contracts) with a 5-year warranty, aren’t they?
It’s clear anyway that I won’t actually save the 20%, as the money will be reinvested.
Today, I found space in the floor plan for a glass, walk-in wine climate cabinet. (I just need to figure out how to “sell” that idea to my wife...)
Best regards
B
Bauexperte24 Jan 2012 10:41Hello,
The world is really small; however, I insist that I am not from the "Windbeutelstadt"! I was born in the beautiful garden city of Wevelinghoven. And yes, if you are in the area, get in touch... I am never opposed to a nice draft Uerige beer or a good wine.
Example: assuming your house has 160 sqm (1,722 sq ft) of pure living space – then the turnkey price would be somewhere around EUR 225,000; this amount also represents the value of the chargeable construction costs. According to the fee table (below) for § 34 Paragraph 1 – Buildings and spatial structures, Fee Zone III, the architect’s net fee is €26,283.00.
6 - Preparation of award: 10%
7 - Participation in award: 4%
8 - Site supervision: 31%
9 - Project management and documentation: 3%
This adds up to 48% of €26,283.00 (fee stages 1-9) = €12,615.84 plus VAT.
The warranty period according to § 438 German Civil Code is 24 months (2 years) and can be reduced to 12 months for used goods by general terms and conditions or mutual agreement. To a consumer, in the first 6 months after handover, it is presumed that the item was already defective at the time of delivery, unless the seller can prove otherwise. If the defect is noticed later than 6 months after purchase, the burden of proof shifts to the buyer, meaning they must prove the defect existed at the time of handover.
The statute of limitations for defects in construction works is five years.
Source: Federal Ministry of Justice
Keep in mind that you do not enter into one work contract with the general contractor—where 5 years according to the German construction code is now standard—but rather several contracts with different tradespeople, where the statutory period of 2 years applies. This can be extended with maintenance contracts.
Well... if I were to make that request, I would negotiate a corner of the climate cabinet for white barrel-aged wine and another corner in a second climate cabinet for a St. Emilion Grand Cru Classé. Maybe your wife has similar tastes.
Kind regards from the Rhineland
ranseier schrieb:
Bavaria is not exactly around the corner, but I just noticed you are from Grevenbroich. I grew up in GV (Neukirchen) and still visit occasionally... so we can continue the conversation there
The world is really small; however, I insist that I am not from the "Windbeutelstadt"! I was born in the beautiful garden city of Wevelinghoven. And yes, if you are in the area, get in touch... I am never opposed to a nice draft Uerige beer or a good wine.
ranseier schrieb:
About the calculation 6-9 HOAI 48% of what???? 48%
Example: assuming your house has 160 sqm (1,722 sq ft) of pure living space – then the turnkey price would be somewhere around EUR 225,000; this amount also represents the value of the chargeable construction costs. According to the fee table (below) for § 34 Paragraph 1 – Buildings and spatial structures, Fee Zone III, the architect’s net fee is €26,283.00.
6 - Preparation of award: 10%
7 - Participation in award: 4%
8 - Site supervision: 31%
9 - Project management and documentation: 3%
This adds up to 48% of €26,283.00 (fee stages 1-9) = €12,615.84 plus VAT.
ranseier schrieb:
Only 2 years warranty? These are work contracts (5 years, right?)
The warranty period according to § 438 German Civil Code is 24 months (2 years) and can be reduced to 12 months for used goods by general terms and conditions or mutual agreement. To a consumer, in the first 6 months after handover, it is presumed that the item was already defective at the time of delivery, unless the seller can prove otherwise. If the defect is noticed later than 6 months after purchase, the burden of proof shifts to the buyer, meaning they must prove the defect existed at the time of handover.
The statute of limitations for defects in construction works is five years.
Source: Federal Ministry of Justice
Keep in mind that you do not enter into one work contract with the general contractor—where 5 years according to the German construction code is now standard—but rather several contracts with different tradespeople, where the statutory period of 2 years applies. This can be extended with maintenance contracts.
ranseier schrieb:
Today I found space in the floor plan for a glass walk-in wine climate cabinet. (Now I just have to figure out how to "sell" this to my wife...
Well... if I were to make that request, I would negotiate a corner of the climate cabinet for white barrel-aged wine and another corner in a second climate cabinet for a St. Emilion Grand Cru Classé. Maybe your wife has similar tastes.
Kind regards from the Rhineland
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