ᐅ Hollow bricks and mineral insulation—are they a poor combination?
Created on: 8 Nov 2017 16:44
C
crion
Hello everyone!
Today we had a construction consultation with a friendly small company from the surrounding area that works exclusively with monolithic wall construction. From my point of view, this is commendable, but unfortunately, their services are not affordable for us.
We would have preferred at least a mineral-based external insulation and *no* ETICS (external thermal insulation composite system). During the discussion, it was mentioned that mineral-based external insulation tends to clump, lose its insulating properties, and potentially become damp—and therefore completely unusable—especially when combined with a brick facade, which is already rather expensive for us.
However, I have noticed quite frequently in the neighborhood on renovations and new constructions that mineral insulation blocks are used on the exterior. These buildings, which have sometimes been under construction for a longer period (I have passed by often), have repeatedly been completely soaked by rain during that time. But shortly after the rain, the insulation neither appeared clumped nor otherwise damaged.
What do you think about mineral-based external insulation as a cost-effective compromise between monolithic construction and ETICS? Which materials or possibly specific products are recommended based on experience, particularly for being robust and durable?
Everything is with perforated bricks…
Thanks in advance!
Best regards,
Christian
Today we had a construction consultation with a friendly small company from the surrounding area that works exclusively with monolithic wall construction. From my point of view, this is commendable, but unfortunately, their services are not affordable for us.
We would have preferred at least a mineral-based external insulation and *no* ETICS (external thermal insulation composite system). During the discussion, it was mentioned that mineral-based external insulation tends to clump, lose its insulating properties, and potentially become damp—and therefore completely unusable—especially when combined with a brick facade, which is already rather expensive for us.
However, I have noticed quite frequently in the neighborhood on renovations and new constructions that mineral insulation blocks are used on the exterior. These buildings, which have sometimes been under construction for a longer period (I have passed by often), have repeatedly been completely soaked by rain during that time. But shortly after the rain, the insulation neither appeared clumped nor otherwise damaged.
What do you think about mineral-based external insulation as a cost-effective compromise between monolithic construction and ETICS? Which materials or possibly specific products are recommended based on experience, particularly for being robust and durable?
Everything is with perforated bricks…
Thanks in advance!
Best regards,
Christian
K
Knallkörper9 Nov 2017 14:02Certainly, any insulation will get wet if there are construction faults. An ETICS (external thermal insulation composite system) is inherently lower quality and should only be chosen by those who really need to save every cent. I am just surprised as to why it is specifically associated with a brick veneer facade.
Knallkörper schrieb:
Certainly, any insulation will get wet if there are construction defects. An external thermal insulation composite system (ETICS) is inherently lower quality and should only be chosen by those who really need to save every cent. I just wonder why it is particularly associated with a brick veneer facade.Until now, this thread had avoided bashing. It’s a shame you can’t keep that up.
Moist brick facades on existing buildings can be seen with the naked eye by a layperson. As if that were so unusual.
In new construction, mineral wool insulation can become wet and remain wet.
K
Knallkörper9 Nov 2017 18:22That's true. When it rains, the brickwork gets wet. However, it's not clear to me why mineral wool used specifically in cavity insulation would be particularly at risk of moisture.
Not particularly more sensitive, just as susceptible as mineral wool itself. Behind the brick veneer, the chance for drying out is almost zero. With brick, you also have no way of noticing moisture issues, and accessing that area again is very difficult. All it takes is someone being careless and not properly covering the insulation after installation, and then a heavy rain over the weekend soaks the unprotected insulation before the brick veneer is completed.
You could also use EPS (expanded polystyrene) behind the brick veneer, which is done in some cases; it doesn’t absorb moisture and is cheaper. But I know, Jehovah is the topic here.
However, my main point is that all wall assemblies have their drawbacks. At the latest, if work is done incorrectly, everything can be damaged.
You could also use EPS (expanded polystyrene) behind the brick veneer, which is done in some cases; it doesn’t absorb moisture and is cheaper. But I know, Jehovah is the topic here.
However, my main point is that all wall assemblies have their drawbacks. At the latest, if work is done incorrectly, everything can be damaged.
K
Knallkörper9 Nov 2017 19:52Certainly. Poor workmanship can happen everywhere, but a cavity wall with core insulation is generally considered one of the most durable wall constructions when properly executed. That’s why I have doubts about the builder’s claim that the core insulation is especially vulnerable to moisture.
In fact, mineral wool behind the brick facing tends to dry out well since the outer leaf is quite vapor-permeable and the wool “breathes,” as long as it remains dimensionally stable. There is a thorough study from the Fraunhofer Institute that mainly discusses whether it is better to use a cavity with or without an air gap in a two-leaf wall construction.
In fact, mineral wool behind the brick facing tends to dry out well since the outer leaf is quite vapor-permeable and the wool “breathes,” as long as it remains dimensionally stable. There is a thorough study from the Fraunhofer Institute that mainly discusses whether it is better to use a cavity with or without an air gap in a two-leaf wall construction.
Hello 11ant!
One conversation...
Yes, I had thought the same, you put it very clearly, thanks.
Especially with our current favorite – the FIBAV (or ELM Bau) – I have concerns about a monolithic wall build-up.
I need to find out how they handle a mineral-based ETICS (external thermal insulation composite system) or the Multipor boards mentioned here...
Next Friday there is an “event” in Braunschweig (advertising and sales event?), which we plan to attend to engage more with them. I will also clearly ask which alternatives to polystyrene-plastic ETICS they have good experience with.
Hopefully there will be one.
Best regards,
Christian
11ant schrieb:
I hope those were two different conversations – meaning with different interlocutors (?)
One conversation...
11ant schrieb:
And remember my mantra (fully quoted here from several threads on exterior wall disputes – see search function), that it is unwise to try to “re-educate” a builder: if he masterfully handles wall construction type X, you shouldn’t want to be a guinea pig to have him learn wall construction type Y.
Yes, I had thought the same, you put it very clearly, thanks.
Especially with our current favorite – the FIBAV (or ELM Bau) – I have concerns about a monolithic wall build-up.
I need to find out how they handle a mineral-based ETICS (external thermal insulation composite system) or the Multipor boards mentioned here...
Next Friday there is an “event” in Braunschweig (advertising and sales event?), which we plan to attend to engage more with them. I will also clearly ask which alternatives to polystyrene-plastic ETICS they have good experience with.
Hopefully there will be one.
Best regards,
Christian
Similar topics