ᐅ Heating System for New Construction – Which Is the Best Option?

Alex85 schrieb:
Besides the absolutely insane 30,000€ for geothermal drilling, you should actually be glad that the air-to-water heat pump is "only" offered at double the price. Unbelievable.

I mentioned the 30,000€ figure because I had assumed I would need to drill twice. Nobody said that; I just figured it myself.

Alex85 schrieb:

I just read your other thread about the compulsory €4,000 expert report.

At what point will you consider the limit has been reached?

Someone has to build the house, after all. I requested three alternative offers. One was almost €100,000 higher, the second was €40,000 higher—both with various points still open for negotiation—and the third hasn’t responded in weeks and never submitted an offer despite several contacts.

There is no limit reached here by far, because according to the construction consultant, this offer is better than the average he normally sees. He also found the price very attractive and said you won’t find a better one. The provider is also one of the reputable and established ones that have been on the market for a long time. It might also be understandable that not everything that belongs to the yet-to-be-commissioned detailed planning was finalized before signing the contract.

Regarding the "compulsory expert," I’m curious how exactly users here have regularly managed to challenge him.

Alex85 schrieb:
If he doesn’t perform a room-by-room heat load calculation as a planning basis, he has no idea.
Because without this, it is impossible to correctly size the heat pump.

....

Otherwise, you should rather ask yourself what you expect from forums and whether this can be a suitable source of information for you. You intend to buy a heating system worth €25,000-35,000 (more likely the latter, given your figures), but you have no knowledge of it yourself and don’t want to trust free sources (like this forum).

....

Then just look it up somewhere else.

....

No words. Where do you even live?!
Nobody owes you anything. You consume information here because you don’t know much yourself and are reluctant to do your own research. Accept the free help or don’t, but drop your demands.

Tell me, what’s bothering you so much?

If you don’t understand what I’m writing, please ask. It doesn’t reflect well on you if you just lash out here for no reason, imagine things, and accuse forum members of nonsense.

Joedreck, unlike you, understood what it was about and provided a helpful, calm response. Thanks again!

Unfortunately, unlike him, you’re acting like a stubborn child just because someone indirectly dared to question one of your statements or called many posts in such forums “amateurish”? Just so you know, no judgment is intended. If you’re not an expert, you’re simply a layperson. It’s that simple. If your ego feels hurt, I’m sorry, that wasn’t the intention, but that’s something you have to deal with. No reason to flip out though. So please calm down a bit.

No one attacked you or “your” forum, but someone asked for ammunition, methods, or starting points for appointments with builders. So what exactly is the problem? Why do you feel attacked?

I might be wrong, but didn’t you recently reprimand someone in another thread and ask what qualifies them and who they are to evaluate and comment on everything?

So now the same question to you: what qualifies you to dismiss an entire industry or most of it as fools and clueless? Are you by any chance a building services engineer, a builder yourself, or otherwise a professional?

Until now, I really thought your posts were well-founded and based on a lot of knowledge, they seemed competent. So I would assume it’s easy for you to back up your claims with facts when asked...

...but you prefer to mock and lash out like only fanboys and bluffers with no substance usually do... why?

It doesn’t have to be like that, does it?

ruppsn schrieb:
It doesn’t have to be that way, right?

You tell me. Your post is full of attempts to provoke, not least the know-it-all tone in your closing sentence.

Everyone here helps as best they can without expecting anything in return. If that’s not enough for you, there are plenty of other sources you can use. Your attitude of entitlement is what annoys me, which is why I’m getting upset.

ruppsn schrieb:
But unfortunately, unlike that, you’re acting like a spoiled brat just because someone perhaps indirectly dared to question one of your statements or called many posts in such forums amateurish?

Not a spoiled brat at all, I mean this quite objectively and not personally. It’s fine not to accept forum opinions blindly. But verifying them is your responsibility as a reader, not mine (“please with expert sources blah blah”). Google is your friend. The key terms have been mentioned several times already, anyone can move forward with that. If you want it served to you on a silver platter against payment, that’s not my job. Every interested layperson here has gathered their knowledge—through books, forums, Google, their own building projects—and shares it. Just do the same and everything will be fine.

ruppsn schrieb:
but the request was for ammunition/approach/starting points for meetings with builders.

I provided that to you. Several times. Here you go.

ruppsn schrieb:
I may be wrong but didn’t you recently in another thread reprimand someone and ask what qualified them and who they are to evaluate and comment on everything?

You’re mistaken.

What really frustrates me is the brazenness with which your “professionals” try to rip you off. When a heat pump costs double the usual price and the seller styles themselves as a “savior,” that’s no longer normal. The statements of these so-called professionals quoted here can be disproved by anyone with some research. But honestly, that’s not my problem, it’s yours/theirs. You’re right, I got too involved in problems that aren’t mine.

P.S.:
@Hotzenplotz
How likely is your outdoor pool? Would it need to be heated? If so, I’d find gas plus solar thermal quite interesting again.

Alex85 schrieb:
You tell me. Your post is full of attempts to provoke, not least the know-it-all tone in the last sentence.

No, it’s not. I was basically just trying to understand why you respond the way you do. Whatever.

Everyone here helps as best they can without expecting anything in return. If that’s not enough for you, there are other sources you can use. What bothers me is your sense of entitlement, that’s why I get upset.

Good grief, where do you get all this from? You’re claiming things that don’t exist. I have no sense of entitlement—I simply asked if such things exist because I want to review them calmly myself and be better equipped when talking to a builder. Having a discussion with a builder who generally rejects forums as irrelevant can be better managed with one page / specialist literature / sources that they also recognize, for example info from the TZWL or "komfortlueftung.at" on controlled residential ventilation. That’s all my question about “sources” was about!

I really don’t understand what’s so bad about the question? If you can’t provide that, fine, just say so and that’s it. Maybe someone else knows a good source that helped them get a solid start. And in all this you see my “sense of entitlement”?

No tantrums here, I mean this straightforwardly and not personally. It’s fine not to take forum opinions at face value. But verifying them is your job as a reader, not mine (“please with specialist sources blah blah”). Google is your friend.

What bothers you is that I asked if someone ideally could also name specialist sources—for the reasons stated above? Seriously? Come on…

The keywords have been named several times, that should be enough for anyone to move forward. Someone will serve it up to you ready to use for a fee, but not me.

Have I complained or acted annoyed that the offer was not enough for me? No, I have not! Nor did I demand that it should be served up ready-made. So please stick to the facts and don’t make things up! I’m honestly getting fed up…

Every interested amateur here has gained their knowledge through literature, forums, Google, their own building projects, and shares it. Just do the same and all will be fine.

Where am I not doing that? I posted an incomplete offer to create transparency and provide comparability for others. Was I trying to present facts that everyone can understand and use? So, on what basis do you make that claim? Can you prove it? If not, please stop with these rude accusations!!!

I gave that to you. Multiple times. Here you go.

Thank you—multiple times.

You’re mistaken.

Then I apologize.

What really annoys me is the brazenness with which your “professionals” try to rip you off. When a heat pump costs double the usual price and they stylize themselves as “saviors,” that’s no longer normal. The statements of the professionals quoted here can be refuted by anyone through research.

Yes, that’s noticeable and I can understand that, no criticism there. My limit of understanding is when people get attacked who are exposed to these “professionals” and for whom it might not be so easy to refute those claims, and therefore ask here—perhaps repeatedly—because they simply don’t understand yet and are seeking support!

Try to understand that some people here are just starting out and

a) cannot assess the relevance of the information that can be easily googled. One site says this, another that, one of them a builder—and it’s not so easy or obvious to sort out what is “well-founded” and what isn’t. To stick with the topic of buffer tanks, you act as if everywhere on the internet you can read one single opinion that buffer tanks are unnecessary, clearly and definitively. But that’s not the case—there are many different opinions. How is a beginner supposed to confidently decide that the sites supporting your position are the RIGHT ones and the others the WRONG ones? Do you see the difficulty and where I’m going with this? And how is someone unsure supposed to stand their ground opposite a builder who is very confident in their position?

b) have a completely different level of knowledge than you, who have already dealt with these questions in great detail and depth.

That’s all I’m going to write about that. Either you accept that I didn’t attack you by asking for information—optionally and ideally with specialist sources—and also that I don’t demand anything from you, let alone that you spoon-feed or serve it up in bite-sized pieces.

And if it helps calm things down, I’ll also apologize if it came across that way, but that was not my intention. And maybe you can show some understanding that I was “slightly” annoyed above, because I’m happy to have a tough discussion on the matter—but baseless accusations and fabrications make my blood boil too…

I will now assume that we simply got each other wrong. With that, I’m done here.

Just checking in again

I have now decided on a ground source heat pump. I have not yet decided whether to go with drilling or a trench collector.

Best regards