Hello everyone,
We are going to build a townhouse with 160 sqm (1,722 sq ft) plus a basement (https://www.hausbau-forum.de/threads/grundriss-stadtvilla-160qm-bitte-um-tipps.30018/). We are two adults, a 6-year-old daughter, and a baby on the way. We all enjoy long, comfortably warm baths or showers.
Our construction contract includes two possible heating systems in the price. I don't want to start a fundamental debate here about whether an air-to-water heat pump or gas/solar is better. Maybe someone has some insight and can give us advice on what might be more suitable for OUR building project and OUR family situation. I also have some specific questions...
(P.S.: Underfloor heating will be installed throughout the house except in the utility room. We also want a fireplace.)
1. Gas condensing boiler with hot water storage tank (manufacturer Wolf, 4–8 kW, with 300 l (79 gallons) storage volume). Domestic hot water supply is central without circulation pipes. 2–3 flat solar collectors included.
- Is 300 l (79 gallons) enough for us "warm water lovers," or will we run out of hot water by the end of the day?
- What exactly is meant by circulation pipes?
- Are 2–3 flat solar collectors sufficient? Our acquaintances are also four people and have 12.
OR:
2. Air-to-water heat pump (manufacturer Rotex HPSU Compact, 4–8 kW) with outdoor and indoor units. One energy storage tank with 300 l (79 gallons) storage volume.
- Does anyone have experience with this device regarding noise levels?
- I once read that when using an air-to-water heat pump, it is advisable to install a photovoltaic system as well, but that can be quite expensive, right?
Since we want a fireplace, the idea came up to combine a water-bearing wood stove with gas/solar and install a combined storage tank (or stratified storage tank?). What additional costs would that involve? Does anyone have experience with that?
What would you recommend? Thanks in advance!
We are going to build a townhouse with 160 sqm (1,722 sq ft) plus a basement (https://www.hausbau-forum.de/threads/grundriss-stadtvilla-160qm-bitte-um-tipps.30018/). We are two adults, a 6-year-old daughter, and a baby on the way. We all enjoy long, comfortably warm baths or showers.
Our construction contract includes two possible heating systems in the price. I don't want to start a fundamental debate here about whether an air-to-water heat pump or gas/solar is better. Maybe someone has some insight and can give us advice on what might be more suitable for OUR building project and OUR family situation. I also have some specific questions...
(P.S.: Underfloor heating will be installed throughout the house except in the utility room. We also want a fireplace.)
1. Gas condensing boiler with hot water storage tank (manufacturer Wolf, 4–8 kW, with 300 l (79 gallons) storage volume). Domestic hot water supply is central without circulation pipes. 2–3 flat solar collectors included.
- Is 300 l (79 gallons) enough for us "warm water lovers," or will we run out of hot water by the end of the day?
- What exactly is meant by circulation pipes?
- Are 2–3 flat solar collectors sufficient? Our acquaintances are also four people and have 12.
OR:
2. Air-to-water heat pump (manufacturer Rotex HPSU Compact, 4–8 kW) with outdoor and indoor units. One energy storage tank with 300 l (79 gallons) storage volume.
- Does anyone have experience with this device regarding noise levels?
- I once read that when using an air-to-water heat pump, it is advisable to install a photovoltaic system as well, but that can be quite expensive, right?
Since we want a fireplace, the idea came up to combine a water-bearing wood stove with gas/solar and install a combined storage tank (or stratified storage tank?). What additional costs would that involve? Does anyone have experience with that?
What would you recommend? Thanks in advance!
B
Bauherrin9228 Feb 2019 16:18Bieber0815 schrieb:
In the end, the gas connection has to reach the gas condensing boiler; that should be clear and must be paid for. pffreestyler schrieb:
Sounds to me more like the public utility connection, and the installation on your property will be an additional cost on top of that.The gas connection to the house obviously has to be paid for separately. I meant that we already paid for the gas connection during the public utility hookup.
The final meter to the house only cost 600 euros here.
The heating system was 7,000 euros cheaper than a heat pump.
And Yvonne already said it: A gas boiler is also suitable for beginners. Turn it on, warm, good. No flow temperature adjustments, no this or that, no fiddling—it does everything automatically, and that’s good. And it’s small in the utility room, leaving plenty of space for shoes, a cabinet, a litter box, etc. K.
The heating system was 7,000 euros cheaper than a heat pump.
And Yvonne already said it: A gas boiler is also suitable for beginners. Turn it on, warm, good. No flow temperature adjustments, no this or that, no fiddling—it does everything automatically, and that’s good. And it’s small in the utility room, leaving plenty of space for shoes, a cabinet, a litter box, etc. K.
Bauherrin92 schrieb:
Are 300 liters enough for us "warm shower fans," or will we run out of hot water by the end of the day?Try searching for the "shower pipe" from Wagner Solar.
It is a double-walled wastewater pipe connected to the shower. The warm shower wastewater flows inside the pipe alongside a heat exchanger through which fresh cold water simultaneously flows toward the hot water storage tank.
This way, about half of the residual heat is recovered. This not only saves costs but also increases the usable water volume in the storage tank.
In theory, it should be possible to use this pipe, combined with controlled residential ventilation, to operate a condensing boiler in compliance with energy-saving regulations—that is, without relying on solar thermal systems. The main challenge will likely be finding an energy consultant able to demonstrate this with standard software programs (since there is currently no checkbox for this).
The unit costs around €550 (plus installation) for the larger model and is now even subsidized by BAFA (unfortunately, only from six units upwards, so not for a typical single-family home).
With or without the shower pipe, 300 liters (79 gallons) are more than sufficient for four people. With the shower pipe, we even reduced the capacity to 200 liters (53 gallons), and we will soon be five.
Bauherrin92 schrieb:
I don’t want to start a general debate here about whether an air-to-water heat pump or gas/solar is better. ypg schrieb:
If you have no expertise with air-to-water heat pumps and the whole system, it’s better to choose a reliable gas heating system. What I always say regarding wall construction: choose the material your builder “knows” well – this also applies here, both for the heating “method” and the choice of manufacturer. It’s often better to go with the second-best solution in theory or based on test results for the specific case, than the very best option where you would unfortunately be a “guinea pig” because the contractor hasn’t worked with it much before.
https://www.instagram.com/11antgmxde/
https://www.linkedin.com/company/bauen-jetzt/
O
Obstlerbaum28 Feb 2019 19:59Nordlys schrieb:
[...] A gas boiler is also suitable for non-technical users. Turn it on, warm, good. No flow temperature settings, no this or that, no tweaking, it does everything automatically, and that’s good. And it is small in the utility room, leaving enough space for shoes, a cabinet, cat litter box, etc. K. Explain. I would say an air-to-water heat pump can also be set to "auto." Both systems only run efficiently if used wisely.
Nordlys schrieb:
A gas boiler is also suitable for those who are not technically skilled. Turn it on, warm, good. No supply temperature, no this and that, no fiddling around, it does everything automatically, and that’s good.Incredibly qualified. The underfloor heating thanks you. And with KfW55 standard and better, you won’t get the heat out of the house.
Similar topics