Hello everyone,
We are going to build a townhouse with 160 sqm (1,722 sq ft) plus a basement (https://www.hausbau-forum.de/threads/grundriss-stadtvilla-160qm-bitte-um-tipps.30018/). We are two adults, a 6-year-old daughter, and a baby on the way. We all enjoy long, comfortably warm baths or showers.
Our construction contract includes two possible heating systems in the price. I don't want to start a fundamental debate here about whether an air-to-water heat pump or gas/solar is better. Maybe someone has some insight and can give us advice on what might be more suitable for OUR building project and OUR family situation. I also have some specific questions...
(P.S.: Underfloor heating will be installed throughout the house except in the utility room. We also want a fireplace.)
1. Gas condensing boiler with hot water storage tank (manufacturer Wolf, 4–8 kW, with 300 l (79 gallons) storage volume). Domestic hot water supply is central without circulation pipes. 2–3 flat solar collectors included.
- Is 300 l (79 gallons) enough for us "warm water lovers," or will we run out of hot water by the end of the day?
- What exactly is meant by circulation pipes?
- Are 2–3 flat solar collectors sufficient? Our acquaintances are also four people and have 12.
OR:
2. Air-to-water heat pump (manufacturer Rotex HPSU Compact, 4–8 kW) with outdoor and indoor units. One energy storage tank with 300 l (79 gallons) storage volume.
- Does anyone have experience with this device regarding noise levels?
- I once read that when using an air-to-water heat pump, it is advisable to install a photovoltaic system as well, but that can be quite expensive, right?
Since we want a fireplace, the idea came up to combine a water-bearing wood stove with gas/solar and install a combined storage tank (or stratified storage tank?). What additional costs would that involve? Does anyone have experience with that?
What would you recommend? Thanks in advance!
We are going to build a townhouse with 160 sqm (1,722 sq ft) plus a basement (https://www.hausbau-forum.de/threads/grundriss-stadtvilla-160qm-bitte-um-tipps.30018/). We are two adults, a 6-year-old daughter, and a baby on the way. We all enjoy long, comfortably warm baths or showers.
Our construction contract includes two possible heating systems in the price. I don't want to start a fundamental debate here about whether an air-to-water heat pump or gas/solar is better. Maybe someone has some insight and can give us advice on what might be more suitable for OUR building project and OUR family situation. I also have some specific questions...
(P.S.: Underfloor heating will be installed throughout the house except in the utility room. We also want a fireplace.)
1. Gas condensing boiler with hot water storage tank (manufacturer Wolf, 4–8 kW, with 300 l (79 gallons) storage volume). Domestic hot water supply is central without circulation pipes. 2–3 flat solar collectors included.
- Is 300 l (79 gallons) enough for us "warm water lovers," or will we run out of hot water by the end of the day?
- What exactly is meant by circulation pipes?
- Are 2–3 flat solar collectors sufficient? Our acquaintances are also four people and have 12.
OR:
2. Air-to-water heat pump (manufacturer Rotex HPSU Compact, 4–8 kW) with outdoor and indoor units. One energy storage tank with 300 l (79 gallons) storage volume.
- Does anyone have experience with this device regarding noise levels?
- I once read that when using an air-to-water heat pump, it is advisable to install a photovoltaic system as well, but that can be quite expensive, right?
Since we want a fireplace, the idea came up to combine a water-bearing wood stove with gas/solar and install a combined storage tank (or stratified storage tank?). What additional costs would that involve? Does anyone have experience with that?
What would you recommend? Thanks in advance!
Bauherrin92 schrieb:
Quick question: Does solar also support the heating system? Or is it only for heating the water? Is the heat collected during summer stored somehow for use in winter?The solar system heats the water. This is stored in a 300-liter (79-gallon) tank until it is used during the day or evening. If more hot water is needed, the heating system switches on. Nothing is stored from summer to winter. The sun also shines in winter, so the water is heated then as well.
If you are not familiar with air-to-water heat pumps and the whole system, it is better to choose a reliable gas heating system. That’s what we did. We also installed a nice fireplace for radiant heat in winter, although it’s more expensive than it is economical. The solar solution saves some energy… at least on costly heating technology required by energy-saving regulations. However, we also had to install a controlled ventilation system with heat recovery.
For energy-saving regulations (building permit / planning permission), there are many options: better insulation, controlled ventilation, triple glazing, air-to-water heat pumps, solar thermal, photovoltaic… something renewable must be included. I cannot comment on water-bearing fireplaces.
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Bieber081528 Feb 2019 13:05ypg schrieb:
If you have no knowledge about air-to-water heat pumps and all that, you should choose a reliable gas heating system. I find that argument a bit weak, since who really knows much about gas heating systems?
In my opinion, it would be helpful to clarify what "pleasantly warm showering" means. For some, 39°C (102°F) is enough, while others need 45°C (113°F). We’re doing fine with the Rotex HPSU Compact here, but I admit the temperature of the shower/bath water from the tap shouldn’t be lower than the standard factory setting.
Regarding the cost: Is the gas connection already installed? If not, then the air-to-water heat pump is more affordable. If it is, you’d have to renegotiate for the air-to-water heat pump to become the cheaper option. That adds another factor to the decision-making process :P.
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Bauherrin9228 Feb 2019 14:47Grobmutant schrieb:
We also considered a water-bearing fireplace once. The conclusion was that it probably will never pay off.Are they really that expensive?
Nordlys schrieb:
Either you use your water, or it’s warmed up for nothing.
K. That’s a bummer 🙁
matte1987 schrieb:
If the house is really well planned so that the hot water pipes are relatively short, you could do without it.Do you mean that the utility room and bathrooms should be one above the other?
matte1987 schrieb:
Are you getting a ventilation system? No
Bieber0815 schrieb:
In my opinion, it would be helpful to clarify what "comfortably warm showering" means. For one person, 39°C (102°F) is enough, for another, 45°C (113°F) is needed.45°C (113°F) preferably 🙂
Bieber0815 schrieb:
Regarding the price: Is the gas connection already installed?Included in the house price? Connections for gas, electricity, and water are not. For the development costs of the street, we have already paid for the gas connection.
Bauherrin92 schrieb:
Are they really that expensive?
Do you mean that the utility room and the bathrooms should be stacked vertically?
.Ideally, yes. That doesn’t just affect the circulation pipes. Other water supply and drainage pipes also become shorter and therefore less expensive.
However, I didn’t pay any attention to that in the building plans. For me, the practical feasibility was the only important factor.
I’d rather have a floor plan that suits me and that I like, than one where the wet rooms are stacked or next to each other but the rest of the house doesn’t work.
We have two bathrooms, a guest toilet, a kitchen, and a utility room. None of them are grouped together or stacked vertically at all. 😉
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Bieber081528 Feb 2019 15:38Bauherrin92 schrieb:
We have already paid for the gas connection as part of the street development costs. The gas connection needs to be installed all the way to the gas condensing boiler at the end; that should be clear and must be paid for. Only you can know the exact details. With an air-to-water heat pump, you only need electricity, which you usually have anyway.
At 45°C (113°F), gas might be the better choice. The higher the water temperature required, the less efficient the heat pump becomes. Combustion systems don’t have that issue. In detail, it becomes a calculation exercise with many unknown variables (electricity price? gas price?). Then you might as well let your preference decide… ;-)
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pffreestyler28 Feb 2019 15:39Bauherrin92 schrieb:
Included in the house price? Connections such as gas, electricity, and water are not included. We already paid for the gas connection with the street development costs.Are you sure that also covers the costs on your own property? To me, that sounds more like the public infrastructure, and the installation on your property will likely be an additional expense.Similar topics