ᐅ Heating system for an older building (previously only individual wood stoves)
Created on: 2 Sep 2019 14:18
A
Anton_Huber
Hello everyone, I’m new here and have a question for all the heating experts in the forum.
We have bought a beautiful old house (built in 1947) with about 180 sqm (1,940 sq ft) of living space.
So far, we have been heating the two floors with four individual wood stoves of different types and ages.
Now we are tired of carrying wood (around 12 cubic meters per winter) and also fed up with the fine dust from the (nice but leaky) cast iron stove from 1912.
We are looking for an environmentally and economically sensible solution (so no oil or gas).
There is plenty of space in the basement for a boiler or fuel.
However, there are no heating pipes or radiators installed in the house.
Hot water is currently provided by an electric tankless water heater.
We were thinking of a heat pump combined with wall heating, possibly together with solar panels on the roof of the garden building...
Alternatively, a pellet stove or a wood chip heating system (in the basement).
Additionally, a wood stove in the living room for cozy winter evenings.
We are a bit unclear about the advantages and disadvantages of each option.
Best regards,
Anton
We have bought a beautiful old house (built in 1947) with about 180 sqm (1,940 sq ft) of living space.
So far, we have been heating the two floors with four individual wood stoves of different types and ages.
Now we are tired of carrying wood (around 12 cubic meters per winter) and also fed up with the fine dust from the (nice but leaky) cast iron stove from 1912.
We are looking for an environmentally and economically sensible solution (so no oil or gas).
There is plenty of space in the basement for a boiler or fuel.
However, there are no heating pipes or radiators installed in the house.
Hot water is currently provided by an electric tankless water heater.
We were thinking of a heat pump combined with wall heating, possibly together with solar panels on the roof of the garden building...
Alternatively, a pellet stove or a wood chip heating system (in the basement).
Additionally, a wood stove in the living room for cozy winter evenings.
We are a bit unclear about the advantages and disadvantages of each option.
Best regards,
Anton
It’s all a matter of money. Ideally, you would remove everything, add insulation, install windows, and route underfloor heating pipes into the screed. Then calculate the requirements and install a suitable heat pump (sounds like a large plot, so probably a ground-source heat pump with a horizontal trench collector). At the same time, install a decentralized ventilation system with heat recovery. (All buzzwords you can look up online.)
However, you probably don’t want or can’t do all that.
There are water-bearing fireplace stoves. They heat the room they are in directly and indirectly warm a storage tank in the basement with hot water.
There are pellet stoves, which could replace wood-burning stoves. Pellets cost money and are worse in terms of CO2 emissions compared to wood.
There are log wood boilers that burn large amounts of wood at once and transfer the energy to a storage tank in the basement, from which you can draw heat later.
There are ceiling heating systems installed during drywall construction. Warm water is circulated through a suspended drywall ceiling. It works like underfloor heating but without cutting into the screed. This can be done if the room height allows and there is no decorative plasterwork.
All in all, it involves quite a bit of work and mess, because to really do it properly, you will need to centralize the heat supply.
However, you probably don’t want or can’t do all that.
There are water-bearing fireplace stoves. They heat the room they are in directly and indirectly warm a storage tank in the basement with hot water.
There are pellet stoves, which could replace wood-burning stoves. Pellets cost money and are worse in terms of CO2 emissions compared to wood.
There are log wood boilers that burn large amounts of wood at once and transfer the energy to a storage tank in the basement, from which you can draw heat later.
There are ceiling heating systems installed during drywall construction. Warm water is circulated through a suspended drywall ceiling. It works like underfloor heating but without cutting into the screed. This can be done if the room height allows and there is no decorative plasterwork.
All in all, it involves quite a bit of work and mess, because to really do it properly, you will need to centralize the heat supply.
Hello
If you want to continue heating with wood, a wood gasification boiler or pellet boiler in a dedicated heating room would be an option.
A buffer tank with domestic hot water preparation as a hygienic tank or with a fresh water station, sized appropriately for the system, is recommended.
If desired, and to avoid dealing with the wood heating during the summer, you can add a solar collector system.
There are subsidies available for this, for example from BAFA: pellet boilers up to €5750, combination boilers from €7500.
Olli
If you want to continue heating with wood, a wood gasification boiler or pellet boiler in a dedicated heating room would be an option.
A buffer tank with domestic hot water preparation as a hygienic tank or with a fresh water station, sized appropriately for the system, is recommended.
If desired, and to avoid dealing with the wood heating during the summer, you can add a solar collector system.
There are subsidies available for this, for example from BAFA: pellet boilers up to €5750, combination boilers from €7500.
Olli
M
Mottenhausen3 Sep 2019 22:38Complete renovation or leave it as it is. In my opinion, for example, older windows with only moderate airtightness work well with decentralized heating appliances in terms of ventilation, indoor climate, thermal comfort, condensation prevention, and so on. If you install a more modern heating system now, you will A) need to operate at high flow temperatures, making the heating inefficient, B) still not have a comfortable indoor climate, and C) possibly experience mold issues, for example, in the window reveals.
This does not only apply to the windows but to all components: floors, ceilings, exterior plaster, interior plaster, insulation materials, and so on. So, if you seal everything additionally, insulate both inside and outside, and so forth, you might suddenly face problems with rising damp in the masonry, which had previously been drying unnoticed and was being managed by the heat from the stoves. This leads to the need for complete drying out, which in turn causes other problems.
This does not only apply to the windows but to all components: floors, ceilings, exterior plaster, interior plaster, insulation materials, and so on. So, if you seal everything additionally, insulate both inside and outside, and so forth, you might suddenly face problems with rising damp in the masonry, which had previously been drying unnoticed and was being managed by the heat from the stoves. This leads to the need for complete drying out, which in turn causes other problems.
If I’ve understood correctly, you are also considering a wall heating system.
Its advantage is that it can often be installed on the exterior walls together with internal insulation without causing issues with condensation. The top floor ceiling is usually easy to insulate.
Depending on the windows, new sealing and glazing might be possible and relatively cost-effective to implement.
This makes it feasible to lower the supply temperature, especially with continuous heating.
The benefit is that you can flexibly choose future heat generators.
Its advantage is that it can often be installed on the exterior walls together with internal insulation without causing issues with condensation. The top floor ceiling is usually easy to insulate.
Depending on the windows, new sealing and glazing might be possible and relatively cost-effective to implement.
This makes it feasible to lower the supply temperature, especially with continuous heating.
The benefit is that you can flexibly choose future heat generators.
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