ᐅ Heating system for an older building (previously only individual wood stoves)
Created on: 2 Sep 2019 14:18
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Anton_HuberA
Anton_Huber2 Sep 2019 14:18Hello everyone, I’m new here and have a question for all the heating experts in the forum.
We have bought a beautiful old house (built in 1947) with about 180 sqm (1,940 sq ft) of living space.
So far, we have been heating the two floors with four individual wood stoves of different types and ages.
Now we are tired of carrying wood (around 12 cubic meters per winter) and also fed up with the fine dust from the (nice but leaky) cast iron stove from 1912.
We are looking for an environmentally and economically sensible solution (so no oil or gas).
There is plenty of space in the basement for a boiler or fuel.
However, there are no heating pipes or radiators installed in the house.
Hot water is currently provided by an electric tankless water heater.
We were thinking of a heat pump combined with wall heating, possibly together with solar panels on the roof of the garden building...
Alternatively, a pellet stove or a wood chip heating system (in the basement).
Additionally, a wood stove in the living room for cozy winter evenings.
We are a bit unclear about the advantages and disadvantages of each option.
Best regards,
Anton
We have bought a beautiful old house (built in 1947) with about 180 sqm (1,940 sq ft) of living space.
So far, we have been heating the two floors with four individual wood stoves of different types and ages.
Now we are tired of carrying wood (around 12 cubic meters per winter) and also fed up with the fine dust from the (nice but leaky) cast iron stove from 1912.
We are looking for an environmentally and economically sensible solution (so no oil or gas).
There is plenty of space in the basement for a boiler or fuel.
However, there are no heating pipes or radiators installed in the house.
Hot water is currently provided by an electric tankless water heater.
We were thinking of a heat pump combined with wall heating, possibly together with solar panels on the roof of the garden building...
Alternatively, a pellet stove or a wood chip heating system (in the basement).
Additionally, a wood stove in the living room for cozy winter evenings.
We are a bit unclear about the advantages and disadvantages of each option.
Best regards,
Anton
B
boxandroof2 Sep 2019 15:20For a heat pump, the house should be able to handle relatively low supply temperatures. That means:
1. Fairly modern insulation: up-to-date windows, roof, no major air leaks. A ventilation system, for example a decentralized one, further reduces the demand.
2. Create as much heating surface as possible: ceiling, walls, floor, and/or low-temperature radiators. Have the heating load of each room calculated individually to plan the heating surfaces.
Every measure helps to reduce the consumption of the heat pump. Overall, this is effortful but feasible. If you keep 1-2 stoves, the heat pump can possibly be supported during the coldest winter period. For a project like this, it’s important to familiarize yourself with the planning process. There are forums where you will find better advice. For example, there is someone who heats an uninsulated old building successfully and relatively efficiently with a heat pump; they installed a lot of wall heating surfaces as a DIY job.
With a pellet stove, you can use higher supply temperatures, meaning you may need to do less in terms of insulation and heating surfaces for the house.
Gas would be the simplest and—without DIY work—probably the most cost-effective option.
Solar thermal is not practical—at most useful for subsidies when combined with gas, but I understand you don’t want that. A photovoltaic system is generally economically viable on its own, but I would consider (and install) it independently of the heating system.
1. Fairly modern insulation: up-to-date windows, roof, no major air leaks. A ventilation system, for example a decentralized one, further reduces the demand.
2. Create as much heating surface as possible: ceiling, walls, floor, and/or low-temperature radiators. Have the heating load of each room calculated individually to plan the heating surfaces.
Every measure helps to reduce the consumption of the heat pump. Overall, this is effortful but feasible. If you keep 1-2 stoves, the heat pump can possibly be supported during the coldest winter period. For a project like this, it’s important to familiarize yourself with the planning process. There are forums where you will find better advice. For example, there is someone who heats an uninsulated old building successfully and relatively efficiently with a heat pump; they installed a lot of wall heating surfaces as a DIY job.
With a pellet stove, you can use higher supply temperatures, meaning you may need to do less in terms of insulation and heating surfaces for the house.
Gas would be the simplest and—without DIY work—probably the most cost-effective option.
Solar thermal is not practical—at most useful for subsidies when combined with gas, but I understand you don’t want that. A photovoltaic system is generally economically viable on its own, but I would consider (and install) it independently of the heating system.
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Anton_Huber2 Sep 2019 17:16Thanks for the great answer!
After many discussions with neighbors and others, I believe the heat pump fails because the house simply isn’t well insulated (old windows, which we definitely want to keep, etc.).
Possibly a pellet stove in the basement and maybe additional solar heating (independent of the current heating solution).
Oil and gas are out of the question for us, also because of the CO2 tax.
But that’s another topic. We have plenty of wood available locally and cheaply.
After many discussions with neighbors and others, I believe the heat pump fails because the house simply isn’t well insulated (old windows, which we definitely want to keep, etc.).
Possibly a pellet stove in the basement and maybe additional solar heating (independent of the current heating solution).
Oil and gas are out of the question for us, also because of the CO2 tax.
But that’s another topic. We have plenty of wood available locally and cheaply.
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boxandroof2 Sep 2019 17:36Anton_Huber schrieb:
solar extra Photovoltaics.
I would try to avoid using the wood heating system for domestic hot water production. For hot water, you could consider a domestic hot water heat pump. This would mostly run on your own electricity if you install a photovoltaic system. Whether a domestic hot water heat pump makes sense compared to an existing instantaneous water heater should be calculated and decided by you.
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boxandroof2 Sep 2019 17:56Take a look at pellet stoves. They might be a good compromise if you want to avoid installing heating pipes and radiators. However, I should mention that I’m not very familiar with wood heating systems.
As long as you don’t replace the windows, I would probably stick with the existing heating system. Otherwise, I think you’d just be heating the outside through the windows, and the investment wouldn’t be worth it. You can also retrofit authentic-looking windows; they don’t have to look modern. Beautiful, old-style wooden windows that match the building’s original period would also help a lot with heat retention. The same applies to insulation, if you don’t have any.
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