We have chosen the two energy sources mentioned above as our favorites. Now we need to decide which is suitable for us. Our house is about 143m² (1,539 sq ft).
What would you recommend? What are the pros and cons of each? Are there any details on average operating and installation costs? Lifespan, etc.?
Thank you.
What would you recommend? What are the pros and cons of each? Are there any details on average operating and installation costs? Lifespan, etc.?
Thank you.
EveundGerd14 Nov 2015 10:59Nordmann schrieb:
In this respect, gas will become even less competitive in the future. Wind power is already almost competitive today without subsidies.The concept of wind farms is highly controversial. Noise pollution and the resulting impact on the environment are currently under close scrutiny.
In my opinion, it is still not possible to make reliable predictions about future energy production. We are still in the early stages.
The choice of heating system is a matter of personal preference.
Predicting future energy prices is like looking into a crystal ball – except it’s clear they will rise.
At the moment, I would prefer a heat pump because of the subsidies – although personal preferences also play a role, such as the desire for independence from gas or fossil fuels. Using gas in combination with solar panels naturally shifts the balance in favor of the heat pump.
If possible: a ground source heat pump with a trench collector – and with some DIY effort, the cost difference to gas is minimal.
Of course, one must not forget that the choice of heating system should always be based on an accurate heating load calculation.
I don’t understand all the fuss about wind farms. In Upper Franconia, there is a wind turbine on almost every corner. So what? When I think about how the population was kept in the dark or given a rosy picture of the consequences of nuclear power for decades, and how every taxpayer subsidized nuclear energy and will continue to do so for a long time (including disposal costs) – the impact of wind power on nature is just peanuts by comparison.
At the moment, I would prefer a heat pump because of the subsidies – although personal preferences also play a role, such as the desire for independence from gas or fossil fuels. Using gas in combination with solar panels naturally shifts the balance in favor of the heat pump.
If possible: a ground source heat pump with a trench collector – and with some DIY effort, the cost difference to gas is minimal.
Of course, one must not forget that the choice of heating system should always be based on an accurate heating load calculation.
I don’t understand all the fuss about wind farms. In Upper Franconia, there is a wind turbine on almost every corner. So what? When I think about how the population was kept in the dark or given a rosy picture of the consequences of nuclear power for decades, and how every taxpayer subsidized nuclear energy and will continue to do so for a long time (including disposal costs) – the impact of wind power on nature is just peanuts by comparison.
EveundGerd14 Nov 2015 12:34How far do you live from this wind farm? Have you ever just stepped outside near it for some fresh air?
Additionally, we need to learn from the past and work to preserve the rest of nature. This also includes the wildlife, which has been proven to suffer due to the wind farms.
Additionally, we need to learn from the past and work to preserve the rest of nature. This also includes the wildlife, which has been proven to suffer due to the wind farms.
N
nordanney14 Nov 2015 12:42EveundGerd schrieb:
Besides, we need to learn from the past and preserve the rest of nature. This also includes wildlife, which is clearly affected by parks.Well, somehow someone is always going to be affected. Everyone wants to give up our coal power plants and nuclear reactors, but no one wants to have wind turbines, pumped storage plants, or whatever else nearby. Humans really are selfish. And whether a bird flies into a turbine rotor or entire areas are devastated by climate change (rising sea levels, dried-up landscapes) is quite a difference...
I’d rather have wind turbines than a coal power plant.
EveundGerd schrieb:
How far do you live from that wind farm? Have you ever just stuck your head outside near it?
Besides, we need to learn from the past and preserve the rest of nature. This also includes wildlife, which has been proven to suffer because of the farms.Yes, the long "walk with the dog" passes through a small park – I know what I’m talking about.
Wildlife suffers... primarily because of us humans and our disregard for nature, driven by economic selfishness. But: they definitely suffer less from wind power than from nuclear power plants and their long-term consequences...
Hi everyone,
Unfortunately, the problem we’re facing is fundamental—something that no green ideology, law, or subsidy can change.
The problem is called reality!
The fact remains that neither solar energy nor wind power can fully replace conventional power plants. At least not as long as serious energy storage capacities are not available. And please don’t come to me with EV batteries or, even worse, lithium battery packs in your basement. (In my opinion, anyone who installs such a bomb in their home isn’t thinking clearly. Have you ever seen a small lithium battery catch fire? You definitely don’t want to imagine what a large one can do...) Besides the environmental impact of producing these battery packs—it’s such a disaster that’s one of the reasons why there are no battery factories in Germany.
Currently, there is no energy storage technology available that can deliver truly significant capacity. Yes, there are still a few hydropower plants, but you also have the environmental protests against those (because some field hamster would lose its home in the reservoir), and compared to the overall power needed for a country like Germany, that is just a drop in the ocean.
“Power to Gas” could be an approach, but its efficiency is poor and in the end there is still a combustion process involved, which many green advocates consider unacceptable.
This leaves the unsolved problem of wind and solar power:
What do you do on nights when there’s no wind?
That actually happens quite often...
This inevitably means that you still have to keep the entire necessary grid capacity (which we are currently building with huge subsidies for renewables) available in conventional power plants. These power plants mostly run at partial load, where their efficiency is really poor. So, the utilities naturally try to run the cheapest plants they have. Since nuclear plants are being shut down, these are mainly lignite coal plants—the biggest polluters around. Hard coal plants, which are somewhat less polluting, are going offline.
The result: Germany is emitting more CO2 than before the energy transition... great success!
It gets worse:
Ecologically it would actually make sense to cover energy demand with wind and solar and to start up gas turbine power plants when extra electricity is needed. These have the advantages of producing the lowest CO2 emissions of all conventional power plants and almost no pollutants, and even more importantly;
they can ramp up much faster than coal plants (about 15–30 minutes compared to 12–24 hours). So they could be used as balancing power plants, especially since the best and most efficient gas turbine in the world has been developed and built here in Germany, reaching over 60% efficiency—hardly any better is possible.
But unfortunately, gas is significantly more expensive than coal, so it is cheaper to run coal plants inefficiently at partial load than to intentionally start a gas turbine. The result is a lot of unnecessary CO2 emissions.
Meanwhile, generous subsidies are paid to the Chinese photovoltaic industry, and the guys in the East just can’t stop laughing!
Siemens, together with the operator, is currently trying to shut down or mothball the flagship power plant in Munich with its super turbine. Instead, another lignite plant is running inefficiently at partial load...
The extra costs are simply passed on to the renewables surcharge, and that’s that.
The fact that energy-saving regulations are forcing the installation of electric heating = heat pumps at all costs is making the problem much worse. In principle, it’s not a bad idea to use excess electricity for heating, but unfortunately, I don’t need heating energy at midday in summer (when there is plenty of renewable electricity), but rather at night in winter (when renewables supply is low). So your heat pump will mostly use conventionally generated electricity in practice, making its CO2 emissions per heat output likely no better than a gas boiler, and probably even worse.
To sum up:
Until this madness ends and political decision-makers in Germany finally demand some expertise, I have little hope that anything will change.
For that reason alone, electricity prices will continue to rise steadily, even though we have already installed so much renewable capacity that on sunny, windy days the market price for electricity is sometimes negative at noon—meaning you get paid to consume electricity! Simply because power plant operators cannot regulate their coal plants quickly enough.
The fact that renewables also have environmental issues (does anyone really believe that their cheap Chinese photovoltaic modules were made according to German environmental standards?), that wind turbines shred birds and drive nearby residents crazy with noise, that offshore wind farms kill many animals during installation (the noise from driving foundations is deadly), that cable routes have to be laid through sensitive areas like the Wadden Sea, and that massive power highways across the country are required, is a completely different matter.
The whole problem is much more complex than many lobbyists, legislators, or green advocates appreciate. And the laws of nature don’t care in the least about what some political party in Berlin wants.
Electricity doesn’t just come out of the socket...
Best regards,
Andreas
Unfortunately, the problem we’re facing is fundamental—something that no green ideology, law, or subsidy can change.
The problem is called reality!
The fact remains that neither solar energy nor wind power can fully replace conventional power plants. At least not as long as serious energy storage capacities are not available. And please don’t come to me with EV batteries or, even worse, lithium battery packs in your basement. (In my opinion, anyone who installs such a bomb in their home isn’t thinking clearly. Have you ever seen a small lithium battery catch fire? You definitely don’t want to imagine what a large one can do...) Besides the environmental impact of producing these battery packs—it’s such a disaster that’s one of the reasons why there are no battery factories in Germany.
Currently, there is no energy storage technology available that can deliver truly significant capacity. Yes, there are still a few hydropower plants, but you also have the environmental protests against those (because some field hamster would lose its home in the reservoir), and compared to the overall power needed for a country like Germany, that is just a drop in the ocean.
“Power to Gas” could be an approach, but its efficiency is poor and in the end there is still a combustion process involved, which many green advocates consider unacceptable.
This leaves the unsolved problem of wind and solar power:
What do you do on nights when there’s no wind?
That actually happens quite often...
This inevitably means that you still have to keep the entire necessary grid capacity (which we are currently building with huge subsidies for renewables) available in conventional power plants. These power plants mostly run at partial load, where their efficiency is really poor. So, the utilities naturally try to run the cheapest plants they have. Since nuclear plants are being shut down, these are mainly lignite coal plants—the biggest polluters around. Hard coal plants, which are somewhat less polluting, are going offline.
The result: Germany is emitting more CO2 than before the energy transition... great success!
It gets worse:
Ecologically it would actually make sense to cover energy demand with wind and solar and to start up gas turbine power plants when extra electricity is needed. These have the advantages of producing the lowest CO2 emissions of all conventional power plants and almost no pollutants, and even more importantly;
they can ramp up much faster than coal plants (about 15–30 minutes compared to 12–24 hours). So they could be used as balancing power plants, especially since the best and most efficient gas turbine in the world has been developed and built here in Germany, reaching over 60% efficiency—hardly any better is possible.
But unfortunately, gas is significantly more expensive than coal, so it is cheaper to run coal plants inefficiently at partial load than to intentionally start a gas turbine. The result is a lot of unnecessary CO2 emissions.
Meanwhile, generous subsidies are paid to the Chinese photovoltaic industry, and the guys in the East just can’t stop laughing!
Siemens, together with the operator, is currently trying to shut down or mothball the flagship power plant in Munich with its super turbine. Instead, another lignite plant is running inefficiently at partial load...
The extra costs are simply passed on to the renewables surcharge, and that’s that.
The fact that energy-saving regulations are forcing the installation of electric heating = heat pumps at all costs is making the problem much worse. In principle, it’s not a bad idea to use excess electricity for heating, but unfortunately, I don’t need heating energy at midday in summer (when there is plenty of renewable electricity), but rather at night in winter (when renewables supply is low). So your heat pump will mostly use conventionally generated electricity in practice, making its CO2 emissions per heat output likely no better than a gas boiler, and probably even worse.
To sum up:
Until this madness ends and political decision-makers in Germany finally demand some expertise, I have little hope that anything will change.
For that reason alone, electricity prices will continue to rise steadily, even though we have already installed so much renewable capacity that on sunny, windy days the market price for electricity is sometimes negative at noon—meaning you get paid to consume electricity! Simply because power plant operators cannot regulate their coal plants quickly enough.
The fact that renewables also have environmental issues (does anyone really believe that their cheap Chinese photovoltaic modules were made according to German environmental standards?), that wind turbines shred birds and drive nearby residents crazy with noise, that offshore wind farms kill many animals during installation (the noise from driving foundations is deadly), that cable routes have to be laid through sensitive areas like the Wadden Sea, and that massive power highways across the country are required, is a completely different matter.
The whole problem is much more complex than many lobbyists, legislators, or green advocates appreciate. And the laws of nature don’t care in the least about what some political party in Berlin wants.
Electricity doesn’t just come out of the socket...
Best regards,
Andreas
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