Good day,
I hope I have posted in the right subforum.
I am planning to build a house on my own land in Hessen at some point.
I often encounter the same issue:
I do not want to acquire a leasehold property (ground lease). The land should belong to me "completely."
Some listings also mention that the property is leasehold.
Here are my specific questions:
Can a purchased plot of land that was NOT acquired as leasehold still be subject to expropriation?
How can you tell if a property might be leasehold, other than it being explicitly stated in the listing? I don’t want to waste valuable time in inquiries only to later realize that although it is not literally mentioned, there is some kind of "code" or other indication in the listing that experts recognize as a leasehold reference, meaning it actually is leasehold.
How does property law generally work in Germany? Does it vary from state to state or is it uniform?
Can it generally be said that property rights in Germany are better or worse compared to neighboring countries such as Austria, Switzerland, or France?
And the most important question: how can I be sure that the land I purchase belongs solely to me?
Best regards
alwayssearchin
I hope I have posted in the right subforum.
I am planning to build a house on my own land in Hessen at some point.
I often encounter the same issue:
I do not want to acquire a leasehold property (ground lease). The land should belong to me "completely."
Some listings also mention that the property is leasehold.
Here are my specific questions:
Can a purchased plot of land that was NOT acquired as leasehold still be subject to expropriation?
How can you tell if a property might be leasehold, other than it being explicitly stated in the listing? I don’t want to waste valuable time in inquiries only to later realize that although it is not literally mentioned, there is some kind of "code" or other indication in the listing that experts recognize as a leasehold reference, meaning it actually is leasehold.
How does property law generally work in Germany? Does it vary from state to state or is it uniform?
Can it generally be said that property rights in Germany are better or worse compared to neighboring countries such as Austria, Switzerland, or France?
And the most important question: how can I be sure that the land I purchase belongs solely to me?
Best regards
alwayssearchin
S
Smialbuddler15 May 2020 13:51alwayssearchin schrieb:
Further away and more undeveloped = cheaper but higher risk regarding new development (and possibly even expropriation?)
Closer to the city center = more expensive, but (supposedly) higher security against expropriation and redevelopment.Since your main concern is the risk of expropriation (and not questions like whether your grandchildren will still be able to play under the big walnut tree later on, which is actually at greater risk with leasehold properties), here is a brief thought in that regard:When in history have most people been expropriated? After major upheavals caused by revolutions, wars, and similar events.
In such cases, you can forget about your “security” based on the current legal system anyway.
There is no absolute security. Never.
A
alwayssearchin15 May 2020 14:07Hello,
That doesn’t mean that my property will definitely be expropriated. I have focused here primarily on the questions I personally find most difficult to answer, to seek advice on those.
Since it seems that the majority of forum users don’t see this as a big issue, it could be that this question has been given more weight than it deserves. However, for me personally, this was exactly one of those questions that no one could give a clear answer to.
Well, I could again write pages explaining why I do not want to risk paying off a house only to have its market value calculated later—usually requiring an expert who then demands 9% of the market value for their valuable services.
Maybe that’s a bit exaggerated? I’ll leave it as is for now.
It seems safer to me to pay off a plot of land that will truly belong to me on day X, so my grandchildren don’t have to worry about what to do next.
Issues like location, connectivity, or future infrastructure are things I would examine more closely in the relevant property listing; I can’t really discuss those here.
What I can address here are basic legal questions and circumstances.
I never claimed that there isn’t a more important question than the one I asked—did I?
Basically, I now wonder why my (supposed) fears and where I grew up are being criticized when I’ve asked a question that could concern anyone.
For example, I wouldn’t ask a pregnant woman why she’s afraid of miscarriage or premature birth if she’s seeking information in a “pregnant mothers forum.”
The fact is, these things exist, and someone like me wants to know more about them.
It doesn’t help me if the answer is “Build and buy and just don’t overthink it.” To continue the pregnancy example, that would be like saying, “There are much more important questions. If you’re worried about THAT, just don’t have children at all. There are more important questions like, for example, who is actually the father, etc., etc.”
Even though I consider that unusual, I still appreciate this information being shared. Only in this way can one get a realistic picture. (Although even after this post, my stance on the subject of ground lease remains unchanged.)
I hope I was able to shed some light on the topic of expropriation.
Best regards,
Alwayssearchin
nordanney schrieb:I believe it doesn’t hurt to be a bit more cautious and ask three extra questions rather than regret it later.
The 100,000 questions are your problem.
That doesn’t mean that my property will definitely be expropriated. I have focused here primarily on the questions I personally find most difficult to answer, to seek advice on those.
Since it seems that the majority of forum users don’t see this as a big issue, it could be that this question has been given more weight than it deserves. However, for me personally, this was exactly one of those questions that no one could give a clear answer to.
nordanney schrieb:
The answer is: yes and no.
Well, I could again write pages explaining why I do not want to risk paying off a house only to have its market value calculated later—usually requiring an expert who then demands 9% of the market value for their valuable services.
Maybe that’s a bit exaggerated? I’ll leave it as is for now.
It seems safer to me to pay off a plot of land that will truly belong to me on day X, so my grandchildren don’t have to worry about what to do next.
nordanney schrieb:What kind of questions should I be asking then?
If you’re already asking such questions about the type of land...
Issues like location, connectivity, or future infrastructure are things I would examine more closely in the relevant property listing; I can’t really discuss those here.
What I can address here are basic legal questions and circumstances.
nordanney schrieb:Although I don’t have to answer such a personal question, I understand what you are getting at. If I had securities, I would have asked similar questions before even considering from whom to buy those securities or shares.
Do you have securities?
saralina87 schrieb:Thank you very much for sharing your experience.
Just throwing this in.
Matthew03 schrieb:Yes, otherwise I wouldn’t have asked it. Your post also doesn’t clarify to me why a (less important) question wouldn’t be worth asking.
Is the question serious?
I never claimed that there isn’t a more important question than the one I asked—did I?
Basically, I now wonder why my (supposed) fears and where I grew up are being criticized when I’ve asked a question that could concern anyone.
For example, I wouldn’t ask a pregnant woman why she’s afraid of miscarriage or premature birth if she’s seeking information in a “pregnant mothers forum.”
The fact is, these things exist, and someone like me wants to know more about them.
It doesn’t help me if the answer is “Build and buy and just don’t overthink it.” To continue the pregnancy example, that would be like saying, “There are much more important questions. If you’re worried about THAT, just don’t have children at all. There are more important questions like, for example, who is actually the father, etc., etc.”
11ant schrieb:
But in the end, effectively turning it into a rent-to-own arrangement is unusual, in my opinion.
Even though I consider that unusual, I still appreciate this information being shared. Only in this way can one get a realistic picture. (Although even after this post, my stance on the subject of ground lease remains unchanged.)
I hope I was able to shed some light on the topic of expropriation.
Best regards,
Alwayssearchin
A
alwayssearchin15 May 2020 14:10Smialbuddler schrieb:
and not about questions like whether your grandchildren will still be able to play under the large walnut tree with their children later on, which is actually at greater risk with leasehold.Funny, I hadn’t read your post when I was just about to reply.Best regards
Alwayssearchin
M
Matthew0315 May 2020 14:13alwayssearchin schrieb:
I hope I was able to add some perspective to the topic of expropriation.No.
And no matter how much you write without really saying anything, you haven’t answered my legitimate question about where this irrational fear of being expropriated comes from. That is an answer in itself.
Regarding your mother’s forum: not every comparison that doesn’t quite fit is valid.
A
alwayssearchin15 May 2020 14:25Matthew03 schrieb:
No.
And no matter how much you write without really saying anything, you didn’t answer my legitimate question about where this irrational fear of expropriation comes from. That is also an answer.
As for your mothers' forum: not every flawed comparison is valid.Thank you, it is clear that there isn’t always a definitive answer to every question, as I have also experienced here.
Whether the comparison is flawed is ultimately just your personal opinion; I believe it conveyed well what I wanted to express.
Best regards
Alwayssearchin
alwayssearchin schrieb:
It seems to me that paying off a piece of land, which truly belongs to me on day X and not leaving my grandchildren wondering what to do next, is preferable.
I know enough examples from personal experience where children or grandchildren had to seriously ponder what to do next, even though the land belonged to grandma and was fully paid off. No one could buy the others out because the value (in a major city) was too high... It might be a "luxury problem," but what I want to say is: you shouldn’t worry too much about things 60 years down the line. I would agree to a 99-year leasehold immediately, but when the remaining lease term is only 30 to 40 years, I see it differently.