You come back from vacation and receive an email about a gas price increase.
A quick look: the consumption price has doubled, and the base price is 25% higher.
And you, who also have a gas heating system?
@Nordlys I know… but who else?
A quick look: the consumption price has doubled, and the base price is 25% higher.
And you, who also have a gas heating system?
@Nordlys I know… but who else?
P
pagoni202015 Nov 2021 18:33hampshire schrieb:
Today we are very focused on saving energy, but always without losing comfort or changing our habits.I find this description very accurate. A certain amount of necessary energy reduction is only required because previously, in my opinion, energy was consumed at an excessively high standard. Certainly exaggerated, but it always reminds me of the cruise ship issue and plastic straws.
The lifestyle considered standard today is almost an explosion compared to life 25 years ago.
Of course, I live it my own way too, but I often don’t see it as standard, rather as a luxury that I sometimes have to sacrifice or pay dearly for, for example, with supply temperature.
The current heating habits, especially the constant expectation of comfortable temperatures in all rooms, including warm feet appropriate to the time of day, are particularly notable.
D
Deliverer15 Nov 2021 18:45pagoni2020 schrieb:
The lifestyle we consider standard today is almost an explosion compared to life 25 years ago.Phew... are you sure? Twenty-five years ago, my old building here consumed 10,000 liters (2,642 gallons) of oil per year. Two years ago, it was 1,500 liters (396 gallons). Now it’s 5,000 kWh (4,765,500 BTU, about 500 liters or 132 gallons equivalent). And that’s despite (or rather because) the floor is now heated AND every room is heated.This probably didn’t happen only in my old building. New buildings—regardless of the standard—are about three times more efficient. You would have to eat a lot of meat and buy a lot of unnecessary stuff from China to achieve an “explosion” compared to 25 years ago.
Yes, flying is bad, but not that many people fly frequently.
I would say the real explosion was between 1950 and 1980. Since then, savings have slowly started and roughly balanced out the gain in comfort. But that last point is more of a feeling—I haven’t looked up reliable statistics.
Steffi33 schrieb:
Yes, we also have gas. We've actually had two price increases within 2 months... one on 10/1/21 and another on 1/1/22… grrrr 😕I’m holding the exact same two notices in my hands 😀
P
pagoni202015 Nov 2021 19:01Our newly built two-family house with six occupants used about 2700 liters (710 gallons) of heating oil in 1990, as far as I can recall. Of course, the appliances are much more efficient today, but imagine if people’s heating or energy consumption behavior had stayed the same while also using modern heating technology—that would certainly represent a significant and achievable saving.
I should mention that, as a child of displaced persons and war returnees, I experienced a lifestyle of frugality, although I didn’t always like it. On the other hand, that mindset is still part of me, and I often turn off lights and only use the heating when I really need it.
Most recently, I lived in an apartment with underfloor heating that was temperature-regulated all the time, and I usually found it too warm there. Apparently, the upbringing by my parents has had a deeper effect than I initially thought.
Of course, I don’t have reliable statistics for this, but what I want to say is that today’s high resource consumption is being curbed or should be limited by increasingly optimized technology. This reduction could be achieved much more easily by slightly lowering the living standards that are taken for granted; however, that is often perceived as a loss of comfort or quality of life.
I should mention that, as a child of displaced persons and war returnees, I experienced a lifestyle of frugality, although I didn’t always like it. On the other hand, that mindset is still part of me, and I often turn off lights and only use the heating when I really need it.
Most recently, I lived in an apartment with underfloor heating that was temperature-regulated all the time, and I usually found it too warm there. Apparently, the upbringing by my parents has had a deeper effect than I initially thought.
Deliverer schrieb:
You’d really have to eat a lot of meat and buy nonsense from China to cause an “explosion” compared to 25 years ago.
Of course, I don’t have reliable statistics for this, but what I want to say is that today’s high resource consumption is being curbed or should be limited by increasingly optimized technology. This reduction could be achieved much more easily by slightly lowering the living standards that are taken for granted; however, that is often perceived as a loss of comfort or quality of life.
D
Deliverer15 Nov 2021 19:41You are generally right. Consumption, especially by those of us in developed countries, needs to decrease. However, I find this almost more challenging than the rest of the energy transition... At least personally, it's much easier for me to install a photovoltaic system and optimize my heating system and mobility habits (which I actually enjoy) than to give up a nice PC, meat, or ultimately an air-conditioned home. In terms of CO2 equivalents, my consumption habits are a comparatively smaller lever anyway.
I see two possible futures here: Either the new government fails just like the previous one, and we don’t manage the energy transition on our own. Then our prosperity will soon be gone, and we simply won’t be able to consume as much anymore. That’s also a kind of solution.
Or we succeed, maintain our status as an export and industrial nation, and balance the same level of comfort with savings elsewhere.
It will certainly be interesting to see how it unfolds.
I see two possible futures here: Either the new government fails just like the previous one, and we don’t manage the energy transition on our own. Then our prosperity will soon be gone, and we simply won’t be able to consume as much anymore. That’s also a kind of solution.
Or we succeed, maintain our status as an export and industrial nation, and balance the same level of comfort with savings elsewhere.
It will certainly be interesting to see how it unfolds.
Or we risk endangering our prosperity with the wrong measures and setting the worst possible negative example for other countries.
By the way, if there are calls to necessarily include climate costs in product prices, we should urgently and comprehensively start doing so and implement the CO2 price on all other goods as well. Even if these were manufactured abroad.
I am curious what the "wealthy" small-to-medium business owner will say when the leased vehicle, clothing, furniture, and all other everyday items suddenly become more expensive...
Regarding the topic: electricity and gas contracts run until April 1st. As of today, the basic utility provider would still be the cheapest option, with a 30% markup compared to my current contract.
By the way, if there are calls to necessarily include climate costs in product prices, we should urgently and comprehensively start doing so and implement the CO2 price on all other goods as well. Even if these were manufactured abroad.
I am curious what the "wealthy" small-to-medium business owner will say when the leased vehicle, clothing, furniture, and all other everyday items suddenly become more expensive...
Regarding the topic: electricity and gas contracts run until April 1st. As of today, the basic utility provider would still be the cheapest option, with a 30% markup compared to my current contract.
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