Hello,
we have submitted our building application for our single-family house with a (separate) double garage (5.85m x 8.94m (19.2 ft x 29.3 ft)).
The double garage is made with steel panel construction, so it is a prefabricated steel garage.
State: Brandenburg.
The garage is planned to be built with one side (8.94m (29.3 ft)) directly on the property boundary.
The problem now is that, according to the Brandenburg garage regulations, this wall (boundary wall) must be a fire wall!!
This is not the case with our prefabricated steel garage.
At least, this is what our building regulations officer is currently pointing out...
The garage company has already installed several of these garages, also nearby, and they are hearing about this issue for the first time.
Other customers never included their garage in their building application process, so they never had problems here.
Now my question is, can this be true?
What should I do?
Upgrade the one wall into a fire wall – which apparently requires a 24cm (9.4 in) thick wall?
Remove the garage from the building application and then simply install it afterwards?
As far as I know, the garage is basically permit-exempt.
Has anyone experienced similar problems before?
Regards
we have submitted our building application for our single-family house with a (separate) double garage (5.85m x 8.94m (19.2 ft x 29.3 ft)).
The double garage is made with steel panel construction, so it is a prefabricated steel garage.
State: Brandenburg.
The garage is planned to be built with one side (8.94m (29.3 ft)) directly on the property boundary.
The problem now is that, according to the Brandenburg garage regulations, this wall (boundary wall) must be a fire wall!!
This is not the case with our prefabricated steel garage.
At least, this is what our building regulations officer is currently pointing out...
The garage company has already installed several of these garages, also nearby, and they are hearing about this issue for the first time.
Other customers never included their garage in their building application process, so they never had problems here.
Now my question is, can this be true?
What should I do?
Upgrade the one wall into a fire wall – which apparently requires a 24cm (9.4 in) thick wall?
Remove the garage from the building application and then simply install it afterwards?
As far as I know, the garage is basically permit-exempt.
Has anyone experienced similar problems before?
Regards
T
toxicmolotof13 Jun 2015 11:00False statements must be corrected. I can gladly paraphrase from my building permit (for house and garage).
The building permit is granted [blabla] on the condition that, before construction actually begins, proof of thermal insulation and structural stability must be submitted to the approving authority.
There is no need to discuss this further, but you are welcome to come by and read it for yourself.
The building permit is granted [blabla] on the condition that, before construction actually begins, proof of thermal insulation and structural stability must be submitted to the approving authority.
There is no need to discuss this further, but you are welcome to come by and read it for yourself.
OMG
So you do have a building permit with conditions!!
In my case, I would then submit the documents for the garage – here I must have signed something, otherwise I wouldn’t get it – and then the officer would have told me that this is not allowed.
Conclusion: I would have the problem a little later then.
So you do have a building permit with conditions!!
In my case, I would then submit the documents for the garage – here I must have signed something, otherwise I wouldn’t get it – and then the officer would have told me that this is not allowed.
Conclusion: I would have the problem a little later then.
T
toxicmolotof14 Jun 2015 00:50An architect can do that.
And our garage manufacturer even has drawings available online for all offered garage types, including sections and foundation plans.
And our garage manufacturer even has drawings available online for all offered garage types, including sections and foundation plans.
Oh, and since that’s what your garage manufacturer uses, of course everyone has that!
I didn’t know that.
And if the garage is a self-built part of the project, then naturally the architect from the home building company will handle the structural engineering for it... sign off on it and then take responsibility.
I didn’t know that either.
I didn’t know that.
And if the garage is a self-built part of the project, then naturally the architect from the home building company will handle the structural engineering for it... sign off on it and then take responsibility.
I didn’t know that either.
T
toxicmolotof14 Jun 2015 11:44My goodness. You just don’t want to understand, and this is getting too frustrating for me.
One last attempt from my side.
The plan that includes the garage has to be created by someone. And someone will charge for it. Either the garage manufacturer, the architect of the general contractor, your own architect, or whoever. In the end, it doesn’t matter.
Garage dimensions are usually standardized. And only you know the size and type of garage you want. Who includes it in the plan is irrelevant.
Again: The structural calculation itself is completely irrelevant until construction starts. The same applies, for example, to the energy performance certificate for buildings. As long as structural stability is ensured during construction, that’s fine. Or do you really think that someone at the building authority actually checks (i.e., recalculates) the structural calculation of a garage? As long as the proof "structural calculation is valid" is provided by the start of construction (and not a minute earlier), that’s sufficient.
We can happily discuss this for hours now. But I’m done.
One last attempt from my side.
The plan that includes the garage has to be created by someone. And someone will charge for it. Either the garage manufacturer, the architect of the general contractor, your own architect, or whoever. In the end, it doesn’t matter.
Garage dimensions are usually standardized. And only you know the size and type of garage you want. Who includes it in the plan is irrelevant.
Again: The structural calculation itself is completely irrelevant until construction starts. The same applies, for example, to the energy performance certificate for buildings. As long as structural stability is ensured during construction, that’s fine. Or do you really think that someone at the building authority actually checks (i.e., recalculates) the structural calculation of a garage? As long as the proof "structural calculation is valid" is provided by the start of construction (and not a minute earlier), that’s sufficient.
We can happily discuss this for hours now. But I’m done.
The devil is in the details here.
As mentioned in the initial post, depending on the applicable state building code, there are building types that can be constructed without a permit within certain defined conditions. In Brandenburg, this seems to apply to small garages, while in North Rhine-Westphalia, for example, these are generally subject to permit requirements.
@Kuddel84: There are always specific commentaries on the respective state building code that your attorney should have or be able to find. They usually explain in fairly understandable terms what the law means, even for non-experts.
Basically, buildings exempt from permits must still comply with the aforementioned conditions. Whether the garages you see in your neighborhood actually do so is another matter. It’s possible that those are steel garages properly constructed, for example with sufficient distance from boundary lines or nearby buildings. It’s also possible that steel garages were built with additional or special approval/permit because certain points of the permit exemption were _not_ met but could be remedied through a formal building application—and it’s also possible that steel garages exist there that were built without a permit but still violate the conditions of permit exemption.
In the last case, this does not create a legal entitlement for you to make the same mistake—@Voki1 or any other attorney will explain that as well.
In my opinion, your contact person here should be your architect, because they must be familiar with building such garages in Brandenburg—but based on your description, I believe the official handling your case is correct.
Best regards
Dirk Grafe
As mentioned in the initial post, depending on the applicable state building code, there are building types that can be constructed without a permit within certain defined conditions. In Brandenburg, this seems to apply to small garages, while in North Rhine-Westphalia, for example, these are generally subject to permit requirements.
@Kuddel84: There are always specific commentaries on the respective state building code that your attorney should have or be able to find. They usually explain in fairly understandable terms what the law means, even for non-experts.
Basically, buildings exempt from permits must still comply with the aforementioned conditions. Whether the garages you see in your neighborhood actually do so is another matter. It’s possible that those are steel garages properly constructed, for example with sufficient distance from boundary lines or nearby buildings. It’s also possible that steel garages were built with additional or special approval/permit because certain points of the permit exemption were _not_ met but could be remedied through a formal building application—and it’s also possible that steel garages exist there that were built without a permit but still violate the conditions of permit exemption.
In the last case, this does not create a legal entitlement for you to make the same mistake—@Voki1 or any other attorney will explain that as well.
In my opinion, your contact person here should be your architect, because they must be familiar with building such garages in Brandenburg—but based on your description, I believe the official handling your case is correct.
Best regards
Dirk Grafe
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