Hello everyone, we need your ideas….
This is a commercial boundary development with 230m² (2,474 sq ft). A double extension has been added to the main house, which we have marked in red as a “breakthrough.” Therefore, changes such as creating a new opening or relocating a door in these areas are not possible. So far, only the exterior walls (thick walls in the sketch) exist; the rest needs to be newly constructed.
The ceiling height is currently 3m (10 ft). It is a bungalow with a flat roof, which we would like to modify. This needs to be discussed with the roofer because the extension is connected to a residential building, and windows etc. must be taken into account.
There are display windows on all three structures, which we have already replaced in our plan with regular windows. We would like to move the entrance door to create a room for the heating system. If possible, we want to use geothermal heating. Underfloor heating is planned for the kitchen, bathrooms, hallway, and living room, and depending on the budget, in the other rooms as well.
An open-plan kitchen-living area is not an option for us, nor do we want any rooms to be walk-through rooms. The plan must include 4 bedrooms, 2 bathrooms, 1 office, living room, and kitchen. So far, we are 2 adults and 2 small children.
Unfortunately, we do not have a basement room, so this area is unavailable for use. Below us are garages or basements, where parts of the sewage system may possibly be located.
Structural information will still be obtained to consider the use of materials for walls and more. We would like to work with aerated concrete, if possible.
We are open to ideas so that our dream of a home can become a reality soon.
Thank you very much in advance for your efforts and have a nice weekend.
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I have taken the liberty of replacing the pdf attachments with visible jpgs so that all users can participate in the discussion.
Best regards, Building Expert
Building Expert
This is a commercial boundary development with 230m² (2,474 sq ft). A double extension has been added to the main house, which we have marked in red as a “breakthrough.” Therefore, changes such as creating a new opening or relocating a door in these areas are not possible. So far, only the exterior walls (thick walls in the sketch) exist; the rest needs to be newly constructed.
The ceiling height is currently 3m (10 ft). It is a bungalow with a flat roof, which we would like to modify. This needs to be discussed with the roofer because the extension is connected to a residential building, and windows etc. must be taken into account.
There are display windows on all three structures, which we have already replaced in our plan with regular windows. We would like to move the entrance door to create a room for the heating system. If possible, we want to use geothermal heating. Underfloor heating is planned for the kitchen, bathrooms, hallway, and living room, and depending on the budget, in the other rooms as well.
An open-plan kitchen-living area is not an option for us, nor do we want any rooms to be walk-through rooms. The plan must include 4 bedrooms, 2 bathrooms, 1 office, living room, and kitchen. So far, we are 2 adults and 2 small children.
Unfortunately, we do not have a basement room, so this area is unavailable for use. Below us are garages or basements, where parts of the sewage system may possibly be located.
Structural information will still be obtained to consider the use of materials for walls and more. We would like to work with aerated concrete, if possible.
We are open to ideas so that our dream of a home can become a reality soon.
Thank you very much in advance for your efforts and have a nice weekend.
-----------------------------------
I have taken the liberty of replacing the pdf attachments with visible jpgs so that all users can participate in the discussion.
Best regards, Building Expert
Building Expert
Well, you had also planned the bathroom in the extension at the same level as the kitchen. However, the drainage is considerably more complex with a toilet than with kitchen drainage.
If the technical installations are placed in the orange area, it would be possible to go down there and continue the waste pipes under the garage ceiling.
What is the height of the garages?
And here:
it would be possible to run the pipes from the kitchen to the bathroom and then continue together. The height buildup would require at most about 20cm (8 inches) for the waste pipe plus the waste pipe itself, roughly 25cm (10 inches) altogether.
As I said… if you swap the kitchen and living area in my plan, then the kitchen would rather be an L-shape with a seating area in the center of the room. How does that look to you? What are your ideas for that?
And, how likely is a third child?
If the technical installations are placed in the orange area, it would be possible to go down there and continue the waste pipes under the garage ceiling.
What is the height of the garages?
And here:
it would be possible to run the pipes from the kitchen to the bathroom and then continue together. The height buildup would require at most about 20cm (8 inches) for the waste pipe plus the waste pipe itself, roughly 25cm (10 inches) altogether.
As I said… if you swap the kitchen and living area in my plan, then the kitchen would rather be an L-shape with a seating area in the center of the room. How does that look to you? What are your ideas for that?
And, how likely is a third child?
I know you wrote that you are very emotionally attached to the construction.
But honestly: the floor plan is quite impractical, the piping is poorly positioned and insufficient (and in one case, there is a breakthrough into a gutter below), and I assume that from an energy efficiency standpoint, this is certainly not a very efficient building. You don’t have a basement, so there is very little storage space.
So it’s hard to get really excited about it.
I would seriously consider demolition and rebuilding as an alternative. Don’t immediately say NO, but just weigh the pros and cons:
- You could create a more practical room layout
- No problems with supply and drainage lines
- Electrical planning could also be approached with modern standards (I assume a lot still needs to be done here, or are there already appropriate cables for TV and all communication, with enough outlets everywhere?)
- You could build more energy-efficiently
- No compromises or makeshift solutions (I’m thinking again about the drainage through the garage into the gutter below)
- The roof wouldn’t need renovating, since it’s new 😉
etc.
I would really think about it. Even rebuilding within the existing walls (which might mean you don’t have to consider setback requirements that apply to new structures but not to existing ones) would be preferable to limiting yourself like this.
Yvonne already made a decent proposal for the given conditions, but honestly, it’s not perfect. It just won’t work with these constraints.
Personally, I wouldn’t want to spend so much money on a property where I have to accept so many compromises. Especially if there might be a better way...
But honestly: the floor plan is quite impractical, the piping is poorly positioned and insufficient (and in one case, there is a breakthrough into a gutter below), and I assume that from an energy efficiency standpoint, this is certainly not a very efficient building. You don’t have a basement, so there is very little storage space.
So it’s hard to get really excited about it.
I would seriously consider demolition and rebuilding as an alternative. Don’t immediately say NO, but just weigh the pros and cons:
- You could create a more practical room layout
- No problems with supply and drainage lines
- Electrical planning could also be approached with modern standards (I assume a lot still needs to be done here, or are there already appropriate cables for TV and all communication, with enough outlets everywhere?)
- You could build more energy-efficiently
- No compromises or makeshift solutions (I’m thinking again about the drainage through the garage into the gutter below)
- The roof wouldn’t need renovating, since it’s new 😉
etc.
I would really think about it. Even rebuilding within the existing walls (which might mean you don’t have to consider setback requirements that apply to new structures but not to existing ones) would be preferable to limiting yourself like this.
Yvonne already made a decent proposal for the given conditions, but honestly, it’s not perfect. It just won’t work with these constraints.
Personally, I wouldn’t want to spend so much money on a property where I have to accept so many compromises. Especially if there might be a better way...
A
avalanche6 Oct 2016 20:56Hello,
demolition is not an option for us. The costs for disposal and new building permits/planning permission seem unreasonable in our view. Of course, we have considered building a new house elsewhere, but even then compromises have to be made. If it turns out that all our efforts and thoughts lead nowhere, we will look for other options.
Next week we will know more about wastewater and windows. Thank you for your thoughts and ideas.
@kbt09
Is a third child on the way...? We can’t say yet, but we would need a guest room. What ideas do you have if a fourth room does not have to be planned?
Best regards
Carolin
demolition is not an option for us. The costs for disposal and new building permits/planning permission seem unreasonable in our view. Of course, we have considered building a new house elsewhere, but even then compromises have to be made. If it turns out that all our efforts and thoughts lead nowhere, we will look for other options.
Next week we will know more about wastewater and windows. Thank you for your thoughts and ideas.
@kbt09
Is a third child on the way...? We can’t say yet, but we would need a guest room. What ideas do you have if a fourth room does not have to be planned?
Best regards
Carolin
I am interested in knowing who owns the neighboring plot along the upper boundary wall of the undevelopable land. It looks and sounds like it could be a public area or a transformer station for utility providers, or something similar.
If I have found the correct legal source for Lower Saxony, openings like these can be allowed with the neighbor's approval. If the neighbor is the municipality or a utility provider, this should be possible.
Regards,
Dirk Grafe
If I have found the correct legal source for Lower Saxony, openings like these can be allowed with the neighbor's approval. If the neighbor is the municipality or a utility provider, this should be possible.
Regards,
Dirk Grafe
I’m just not sure if it will be cheaper to renovate an old building that was previously used commercially instead of constructing something new there.
It’s not only the walls that need insulation; the foundation slab probably won’t meet current standards either. And I assume you don’t want cold feet—you want underfloor heating, as far as I’ve understood.
I admit, I’ve been burnt before—my brother is currently renovating an old house, and it’s really a Pandora’s box... The costs have now easily exceeded those of a new build.
It’s not only the walls that need insulation; the foundation slab probably won’t meet current standards either. And I assume you don’t want cold feet—you want underfloor heating, as far as I’ve understood.
I admit, I’ve been burnt before—my brother is currently renovating an old house, and it’s really a Pandora’s box... The costs have now easily exceeded those of a new build.
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