Hello everyone,
A few weeks ago, I shared our self-drawn floor plan ideas here. After receiving many helpful suggestions from you, we now have the preliminary drafts from the architect, which I would like to present for further discussion.
It is a two-family house, with one living unit on the ground floor (for my parents, later for rental) and the upper floors for us. The house will have a flat roof. The somewhat unconventional layout of the upper apartment (common living areas on the upper level, quiet rooms below) is intentional and what we want.
I look forward to your comments.
Thank you, Jim
A few weeks ago, I shared our self-drawn floor plan ideas here. After receiving many helpful suggestions from you, we now have the preliminary drafts from the architect, which I would like to present for further discussion.
It is a two-family house, with one living unit on the ground floor (for my parents, later for rental) and the upper floors for us. The house will have a flat roof. The somewhat unconventional layout of the upper apartment (common living areas on the upper level, quiet rooms below) is intentional and what we want.
I look forward to your comments.
Thank you, Jim
Oops, please ignore the second attached thumbnail from the last comment; I meant the first graphic. By the way, this makes the kids’ rooms more flexible, I think. You can move the door of the kids’ room (bottom right) to the north, which allows making the narrow room deeper since the hallway for the removed door is no longer needed. Okay, now there might be some issues with the third kids’ room, but you can figure that out yourselves. In any case, the walls can be moved much more easily until everything fits.
Hello kaho, thanks again for your effort. I like your ground floor design more and more!
The weak point remains the entrance area of the first upper floor (OG1), as I see it too. Actually, it already starts downstairs: You enter the house and immediately go up the staircase next to the front door. The staircase is 1.1 m wide (3.6 feet) but runs between two walls. In front of the apartment door there is then a "moderately sized" and relatively dark landing. Inside, there is also the curved wall continuing.
Your proposed change would indeed create a more spacious effect at least from the apartment door onward, and also provide more options for the children’s rooms. The downside would be that guests would have to pass directly by the children’s bedroom doors on their way to the second upper floor (OG2) in the evening. And with the wardrobe you don’t just pass by briefly, but tend to linger for a moment. We have concerns about this. Currently, we have a similar situation where only a door separates the wardrobe from a sleeping child, which is really annoying when guests are over in the evening. So at the moment it’s a “pick your poison” decision. My suspicion is that with this staircase, there is no solution that is better in both respects. However, the staircase is large enough that an alternative layout might be possible. I’m still working on this, although it could potentially affect all floors... At one point, I even considered a separate ground floor front entrance door in order not to have to reach the separation only on OG1. But then there would be a problem with the shared basement access again...
The weak point remains the entrance area of the first upper floor (OG1), as I see it too. Actually, it already starts downstairs: You enter the house and immediately go up the staircase next to the front door. The staircase is 1.1 m wide (3.6 feet) but runs between two walls. In front of the apartment door there is then a "moderately sized" and relatively dark landing. Inside, there is also the curved wall continuing.
Your proposed change would indeed create a more spacious effect at least from the apartment door onward, and also provide more options for the children’s rooms. The downside would be that guests would have to pass directly by the children’s bedroom doors on their way to the second upper floor (OG2) in the evening. And with the wardrobe you don’t just pass by briefly, but tend to linger for a moment. We have concerns about this. Currently, we have a similar situation where only a door separates the wardrobe from a sleeping child, which is really annoying when guests are over in the evening. So at the moment it’s a “pick your poison” decision. My suspicion is that with this staircase, there is no solution that is better in both respects. However, the staircase is large enough that an alternative layout might be possible. I’m still working on this, although it could potentially affect all floors... At one point, I even considered a separate ground floor front entrance door in order not to have to reach the separation only on OG1. But then there would be a problem with the shared basement access again...
Hello,
I need to think about what you mean first. In any case, what I wrote before was complete nonsense. It only works if we turn the staircase around. This has the big advantage that there is more space in the entrance area. Apart from that, the staircase is huge, and so is the stairwell. I consider that a waste of space. Therefore, I would probably try to work with a half-turn staircase. Even with generous steps, you end up with about 3.5m (11.5 feet) in length and 1.3m (4.3 feet) in depth. This will save a lot of space and the whole layout needs to be completely rethought.
I need to think about what you mean first. In any case, what I wrote before was complete nonsense. It only works if we turn the staircase around. This has the big advantage that there is more space in the entrance area. Apart from that, the staircase is huge, and so is the stairwell. I consider that a waste of space. Therefore, I would probably try to work with a half-turn staircase. Even with generous steps, you end up with about 3.5m (11.5 feet) in length and 1.3m (4.3 feet) in depth. This will save a lot of space and the whole layout needs to be completely rethought.
I will summarize the requirements for the stairwell:
- Both residential units must be clearly separated, i.e., ground floor (GF) versus upper floors 1/2 (UF1/2).
- Both units have access to the basement.
- The access to the upper residential unit should be suitable for a family (not too narrow).
- It should be possible for visitors in the evening to reach UF2 without passing through only one door between the traffic area to UF2 or the cloakroom and the sleeping children. Ideally, there should be a second door that remains open during the day, allowing people in UF2 to be aware of what is going on in UF1.
- The layout of the rooms in the current plans is absolutely ideal considering the building surroundings. It would be good to keep it that way.
However, the stairwell in the current plan is a waste of space. I tried a solution with two 1/4 turns:
The children’s rooms now have a better shape. The landing in front of the apartment entrance door is somewhat larger.
However, you have to take quite a few turns! Too many, I fear.
But one can see the potential for a more efficient stair solution. The stairwell’s width and depth could be reduced, which could benefit, for example, the entrance area on the ground floor.
Nevertheless, what was good about the previous solution was that the stairwell on the ground floor was quite wide. The space available there could be used jointly by both residential units or depending on who needs it more at the time. For example, I am thinking of a stroller for the upper unit, a rollator for the lower one, shared guests, etc. In this respect, the space in the stairwell may even be more purposeful than if it were clearly allocated only to the ground floor apartment.
- Both residential units must be clearly separated, i.e., ground floor (GF) versus upper floors 1/2 (UF1/2).
- Both units have access to the basement.
- The access to the upper residential unit should be suitable for a family (not too narrow).
- It should be possible for visitors in the evening to reach UF2 without passing through only one door between the traffic area to UF2 or the cloakroom and the sleeping children. Ideally, there should be a second door that remains open during the day, allowing people in UF2 to be aware of what is going on in UF1.
- The layout of the rooms in the current plans is absolutely ideal considering the building surroundings. It would be good to keep it that way.
However, the stairwell in the current plan is a waste of space. I tried a solution with two 1/4 turns:
The children’s rooms now have a better shape. The landing in front of the apartment entrance door is somewhat larger.
However, you have to take quite a few turns! Too many, I fear.
But one can see the potential for a more efficient stair solution. The stairwell’s width and depth could be reduced, which could benefit, for example, the entrance area on the ground floor.
Nevertheless, what was good about the previous solution was that the stairwell on the ground floor was quite wide. The space available there could be used jointly by both residential units or depending on who needs it more at the time. For example, I am thinking of a stroller for the upper unit, a rollator for the lower one, shared guests, etc. In this respect, the space in the stairwell may even be more purposeful than if it were clearly allocated only to the ground floor apartment.
Hmm, that makes the platform even darker.
I also mirrored the staircase vertically; that wouldn’t be too bad for the first upper floor. However, the original (unmirrored) layout is better for the second upper floor because it leads you out to the middle of the floor...
Really tricky. We probably won’t make much progress with the architect anymore. Going to a second architect doesn’t guarantee success either and would just cost more money, so I’m hesitant to take that step...
I also mirrored the staircase vertically; that wouldn’t be too bad for the first upper floor. However, the original (unmirrored) layout is better for the second upper floor because it leads you out to the middle of the floor...
Really tricky. We probably won’t make much progress with the architect anymore. Going to a second architect doesn’t guarantee success either and would just cost more money, so I’m hesitant to take that step...
Hello Jim, I played around a bit more. But I’m afraid that fitting all your wishes into the house is quite challenging.
On the ground floor, I moved the kitchen to the back to place the living room next to the terrace. Whether the pantry is necessary is a matter of taste; surely there are other solutions possible – the kitchen should be large enough, I think.
The utility room is smaller but can fit the washing machine and dryer – that’s the most important thing. The highlight is the chimney with a fireplace – always tricky to run it all the way up. The staircase has been reduced in size: 4.10m x 1.30m (13 ft 5 in x 4 ft 3 in). The stairway is on the opposite side, across from the entrance door.
On the first floor, I swapped the rooms around. Let me explain why: I didn’t want to place the staircase leading upstairs out in the hallway. That would give the apartment an uncomfortable stairwell feeling – in my opinion. So I brought the stairway inside. However, I placed the parents’ room at the loudest spot. The children’s rooms are as far away as possible. I assume the parents tend to stay up later than the kids. You can always swap later.
The children’s rooms are roughly the same size, which should help keep the peace. I moved the bathroom forward so the parents don’t have to wake all the kids when they come to bed from their nightly activities.
Not much has changed on the top floor, except for the staircase. It bends the other way coming up from below to keep the living room quiet. I’m not sure if that’s even possible – it should be, though. Also, of course, we have the fireplace, which is great.
You can probably handle the layout of the small extra rooms yourself – I didn’t find that very exciting. Regarding windows, I mostly left those to you or forgot to delete them, I just noticed.
One more note: I consider 11cm (4.3 in) walls quite “thin,” literally. I went with 17.5cm (6.9 in) where it seemed appropriate. The ceiling between the ground and first floors should have very good sound insulation. Kids’ footsteps are like little elephants and can drive grandma crazy.
So, until then!
On the ground floor, I moved the kitchen to the back to place the living room next to the terrace. Whether the pantry is necessary is a matter of taste; surely there are other solutions possible – the kitchen should be large enough, I think.
The utility room is smaller but can fit the washing machine and dryer – that’s the most important thing. The highlight is the chimney with a fireplace – always tricky to run it all the way up. The staircase has been reduced in size: 4.10m x 1.30m (13 ft 5 in x 4 ft 3 in). The stairway is on the opposite side, across from the entrance door.
On the first floor, I swapped the rooms around. Let me explain why: I didn’t want to place the staircase leading upstairs out in the hallway. That would give the apartment an uncomfortable stairwell feeling – in my opinion. So I brought the stairway inside. However, I placed the parents’ room at the loudest spot. The children’s rooms are as far away as possible. I assume the parents tend to stay up later than the kids. You can always swap later.
The children’s rooms are roughly the same size, which should help keep the peace. I moved the bathroom forward so the parents don’t have to wake all the kids when they come to bed from their nightly activities.
Not much has changed on the top floor, except for the staircase. It bends the other way coming up from below to keep the living room quiet. I’m not sure if that’s even possible – it should be, though. Also, of course, we have the fireplace, which is great.
You can probably handle the layout of the small extra rooms yourself – I didn’t find that very exciting. Regarding windows, I mostly left those to you or forgot to delete them, I just noticed.
One more note: I consider 11cm (4.3 in) walls quite “thin,” literally. I went with 17.5cm (6.9 in) where it seemed appropriate. The ceiling between the ground and first floors should have very good sound insulation. Kids’ footsteps are like little elephants and can drive grandma crazy.
So, until then!
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