ᐅ Floor Plan Optimization | Semi-Detached House on a Slope with 192 m² of Living Space
Created on: 7 Jun 2020 21:28
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erazorlll
Dear Forum,
In recent weeks, I shared my experiences searching for and selecting a construction company. Thanks again for all your help and discussions!
As promised, I am posting our current plans here and would appreciate your comments and suggestions. Some minor details are not ideal but likely cannot be changed – I have explained these below.
Development Plan / Restrictions
Plot size: 340m² (3,659 sq ft)
Slope: Yes, approximately 2m (6.5 ft) difference over 17m (56 ft) length
Site coverage ratio: 0.4
Floor area ratio: none
Building envelope, building line and boundary:
Maximum building envelope for semi-detached house: 8x13m (26x43 ft)
Maximum garage building envelope: 5x9m (16x30 ft)
Building boundaries may be exceeded by a maximum of 5m (16 ft) in width and 1.5m (5 ft) in depth per building side, as well as by minor structural elements
Number of parking spaces: 2 cars and 2 bicycles
Storeys: No direct specification, but height limits above sea level apply
Roof type: Gable roof, 30-40° pitch
Architectural style: -
Orientation: Southeast
Maximum heights/limits:
Maximum eaves and ridge heights are given as heights above sea level.
No roof structures are permitted on the north side.
Additional requirements:
A cistern is mandatory. The maximum height of the garage within its designated envelope is specified.
Client Requirements
Style, roof type, building type: Modern, gable roof, semi-detached house
Basement, floors: At least two floors required; the open basement results from the slope
Number of occupants, age: 2 adults in their early/mid-30s, planning for 1-2 children
Space requirements on ground and upper floors:
Ground floor: office, living room, dining room, kitchen, pantry, and shower/WC
Upper floor: bedroom, dressing room, bathroom, and two children’s bedrooms
Office: family use or home office? An office is essential
Overnight guests per year: 2-3 times
Open or closed architecture: Good mix. Kitchen, dining, and living areas are mostly open; the rest are mostly closed
Conservative or modern construction: Modern construction preferred
Open kitchen, island: Open kitchen with island
Number of dining seats: 4-6
Fireplace: Yes, if feasible
Music/sound wall: ?
Balcony, roof terrace: No, not needed
Garage, carport: Double garage is not possible due to development plan restrictions. Therefore, a slightly wider single garage with space for trash bins and bicycles.
Utility garden, greenhouse: No
Additional wishes/special features/daily routine, reasons for preferences:
The master bedroom can be smaller since it is only for sleeping; the space should benefit other rooms.
A large bathroom with a spacious, airy feel.
See also text below.
House Design
Planning source: Discussions with the general contractor and implementation by architects
What do you especially like? Why?
Bathroom – relatively large, wide double vanity, WC somewhat hidden, and walk-in shower without enclosure
Staircase – not too tightly curved for a semi-detached house
Children’s rooms – equally sized but not mirrored exactly, slightly different layouts
What do you not like? Why?
Pantry – unfortunately not directly behind the kitchen, with stairs in between
Ground floor WC – initially planned as a shower toilet but moved to basement due to space constraints
Estimated cost according to architect/planner: approx. 2,400 euros per m² (approx. $220 per sq ft)
Personal price limit for house including fittings:
Preferred heating system: Air-to-water heat pump as a split unit – suggested model was "Weishaupt Air/Water Heat Pump Biblock (WWP LB)"
If you had to give up, which details or expansions would you skip
-Could you skip: Fireplace, granny flat, size of basement hallway, knee wall in master bedroom
-Cannot skip: Large bathroom, pantry and ground floor WC, office
Why was the design created this way?
We discussed our wishes for each floor with the general contractor, who then worked with the architect to create a design.
We reviewed and adjusted the design several times to meet our needs.
The suggestion to place the kitchen directly by the terrace and the living room more inward came from the general contractor.
Additional remarks:
We acquired a plot for a semi-detached house and after long research chose a solid construction provider.
Besides standard rooms, we require two children’s rooms and a home office. Due to the slope, a three-story building with an open basement at the front evolved. An open kitchen-dining-living area with a possible small division to the living room via a fireplace is important to us.
The general contractor proposed placing the kitchen on the garden side for easy access between garden and kitchen/refrigerator, especially in summer. The living area was placed more inward for more privacy. Initially, this seemed unusual since most floor plans are the other way around. Now we find it quite interesting.
After the first draft, two problems arose: the kitchen was too narrow for our ideas. We wanted an open kitchen with a large central island. The dressing room upstairs was hard to use due to layout and a 2m (6.5 ft) boundary line. We reworked the plan extensively and had to move the staircase, which affected the layout on all floors. The dressing room has become acceptable and usable. Unfortunately, these changes meant that the pantry was no longer behind the kitchen and the ground floor WC lost its shower. We see no option to change this without causing other issues.
We do not actually need a granny flat. However, due to the open basement design, an extra room emerged. Initially planned as a hobby room, it became a granny flat because the ground floor shower had to be removed and we wanted a second shower for safety. This is not bad for several reasons: 1) if we are older, we would have everything needed downstairs and on the ground floor; 2) if a child wants to move in, they have a WC and shower; 3) there would be a second shower in the house (in case there are three women living here).
And if you wonder why the house is so large with 192m² (2,067 sq ft) of living space:
We never planned for so much space; it developed naturally. We do not want to change the width of 8m (26 ft), as it would become too narrow. The length of 12m (39 ft) could theoretically be reduced, but currently, only the basement area seems oversized. On the ground floor, space is tight for pantry and shower, and upstairs for dressing room layout.
That’s the overview of our ideas and plans. I look forward to your comments and questions.
What is the most important/basic question about the floor plan in 130 characters?
We would appreciate general opinions on the floor plan.
Have we overlooked anything that only becomes apparent in daily life?
Are there smarter ideas for alternative layouts?
What do you think about the kitchen’s layout and size?
What about the garage size? I’m unsure whether width or length is more important.
What do you think about the door orientations? Some open inward, some outward due to space. Is this inconvenient or acceptable?
If anything is missing, please let me know.
PS: The exterior design of the house and garage (color, wood between windows, etc.) and the type of doors in the dining room (sliding/door/fixed) are not finalized and just roughly sketched. Please disregard.
Thank you!
//Edit: If anyone wonders why the maximum roof height in the plan differs slightly from the building roof height: this was a later change to the development plan and is correct.
In recent weeks, I shared my experiences searching for and selecting a construction company. Thanks again for all your help and discussions!
As promised, I am posting our current plans here and would appreciate your comments and suggestions. Some minor details are not ideal but likely cannot be changed – I have explained these below.
Development Plan / Restrictions
Plot size: 340m² (3,659 sq ft)
Slope: Yes, approximately 2m (6.5 ft) difference over 17m (56 ft) length
Site coverage ratio: 0.4
Floor area ratio: none
Building envelope, building line and boundary:
Maximum building envelope for semi-detached house: 8x13m (26x43 ft)
Maximum garage building envelope: 5x9m (16x30 ft)
Building boundaries may be exceeded by a maximum of 5m (16 ft) in width and 1.5m (5 ft) in depth per building side, as well as by minor structural elements
Number of parking spaces: 2 cars and 2 bicycles
Storeys: No direct specification, but height limits above sea level apply
Roof type: Gable roof, 30-40° pitch
Architectural style: -
Orientation: Southeast
Maximum heights/limits:
Maximum eaves and ridge heights are given as heights above sea level.
No roof structures are permitted on the north side.
Additional requirements:
A cistern is mandatory. The maximum height of the garage within its designated envelope is specified.
Client Requirements
Style, roof type, building type: Modern, gable roof, semi-detached house
Basement, floors: At least two floors required; the open basement results from the slope
Number of occupants, age: 2 adults in their early/mid-30s, planning for 1-2 children
Space requirements on ground and upper floors:
Ground floor: office, living room, dining room, kitchen, pantry, and shower/WC
Upper floor: bedroom, dressing room, bathroom, and two children’s bedrooms
Office: family use or home office? An office is essential
Overnight guests per year: 2-3 times
Open or closed architecture: Good mix. Kitchen, dining, and living areas are mostly open; the rest are mostly closed
Conservative or modern construction: Modern construction preferred
Open kitchen, island: Open kitchen with island
Number of dining seats: 4-6
Fireplace: Yes, if feasible
Music/sound wall: ?
Balcony, roof terrace: No, not needed
Garage, carport: Double garage is not possible due to development plan restrictions. Therefore, a slightly wider single garage with space for trash bins and bicycles.
Utility garden, greenhouse: No
Additional wishes/special features/daily routine, reasons for preferences:
The master bedroom can be smaller since it is only for sleeping; the space should benefit other rooms.
A large bathroom with a spacious, airy feel.
See also text below.
House Design
Planning source: Discussions with the general contractor and implementation by architects
What do you especially like? Why?
Bathroom – relatively large, wide double vanity, WC somewhat hidden, and walk-in shower without enclosure
Staircase – not too tightly curved for a semi-detached house
Children’s rooms – equally sized but not mirrored exactly, slightly different layouts
What do you not like? Why?
Pantry – unfortunately not directly behind the kitchen, with stairs in between
Ground floor WC – initially planned as a shower toilet but moved to basement due to space constraints
Estimated cost according to architect/planner: approx. 2,400 euros per m² (approx. $220 per sq ft)
Personal price limit for house including fittings:
Preferred heating system: Air-to-water heat pump as a split unit – suggested model was "Weishaupt Air/Water Heat Pump Biblock (WWP LB)"
If you had to give up, which details or expansions would you skip
-Could you skip: Fireplace, granny flat, size of basement hallway, knee wall in master bedroom
-Cannot skip: Large bathroom, pantry and ground floor WC, office
Why was the design created this way?
We discussed our wishes for each floor with the general contractor, who then worked with the architect to create a design.
We reviewed and adjusted the design several times to meet our needs.
The suggestion to place the kitchen directly by the terrace and the living room more inward came from the general contractor.
Additional remarks:
We acquired a plot for a semi-detached house and after long research chose a solid construction provider.
Besides standard rooms, we require two children’s rooms and a home office. Due to the slope, a three-story building with an open basement at the front evolved. An open kitchen-dining-living area with a possible small division to the living room via a fireplace is important to us.
The general contractor proposed placing the kitchen on the garden side for easy access between garden and kitchen/refrigerator, especially in summer. The living area was placed more inward for more privacy. Initially, this seemed unusual since most floor plans are the other way around. Now we find it quite interesting.
After the first draft, two problems arose: the kitchen was too narrow for our ideas. We wanted an open kitchen with a large central island. The dressing room upstairs was hard to use due to layout and a 2m (6.5 ft) boundary line. We reworked the plan extensively and had to move the staircase, which affected the layout on all floors. The dressing room has become acceptable and usable. Unfortunately, these changes meant that the pantry was no longer behind the kitchen and the ground floor WC lost its shower. We see no option to change this without causing other issues.
We do not actually need a granny flat. However, due to the open basement design, an extra room emerged. Initially planned as a hobby room, it became a granny flat because the ground floor shower had to be removed and we wanted a second shower for safety. This is not bad for several reasons: 1) if we are older, we would have everything needed downstairs and on the ground floor; 2) if a child wants to move in, they have a WC and shower; 3) there would be a second shower in the house (in case there are three women living here).
And if you wonder why the house is so large with 192m² (2,067 sq ft) of living space:
We never planned for so much space; it developed naturally. We do not want to change the width of 8m (26 ft), as it would become too narrow. The length of 12m (39 ft) could theoretically be reduced, but currently, only the basement area seems oversized. On the ground floor, space is tight for pantry and shower, and upstairs for dressing room layout.
That’s the overview of our ideas and plans. I look forward to your comments and questions.
What is the most important/basic question about the floor plan in 130 characters?
We would appreciate general opinions on the floor plan.
Have we overlooked anything that only becomes apparent in daily life?
Are there smarter ideas for alternative layouts?
What do you think about the kitchen’s layout and size?
What about the garage size? I’m unsure whether width or length is more important.
What do you think about the door orientations? Some open inward, some outward due to space. Is this inconvenient or acceptable?
If anything is missing, please let me know.
PS: The exterior design of the house and garage (color, wood between windows, etc.) and the type of doors in the dining room (sliding/door/fixed) are not finalized and just roughly sketched. Please disregard.
Thank you!
//Edit: If anyone wonders why the maximum roof height in the plan differs slightly from the building roof height: this was a later change to the development plan and is correct.
erazorlll schrieb:
Thank you very much for your comments on the planning. Every input really helps.
I could still implement smaller issues, but for major changes, the general contractor would turn against me. I see a few minor points and still have the courage to mention them.
Move the door to the granny flat/hallway: it’s positioned directly opposite the load-bearing wall. It would be worth considering placing it facing the main entrance or the stairs. Both options have advantages, so it might be good to rearrange the furniture 😉 For example, I see the kitchen corner more on the outside. The windowless bathroom can also be located inside.
The laundry chute is very poorly placed. It causes a lot of complications in organizing the space.
I would leave it out.
I think the pantry is very well located in the pitched roof layout with the entrance in the basement.
Moving a few meters is completely fine. It’s not a backup kitchen anyway. The latter should be placed behind or next to a show kitchen.
I would move the door to the office slightly towards the bottom of the plan.
I agree with @driver55 about the kitchen or open plan room door: this entrance is too important to have it placed with such a poor design. In my opinion, alternative 1: leave it out. The door is not needed.
Option 2 or combined with option 1: think about whether you want to keep this continuously boring symmetry of the kitchen. A kitchen doesn’t have to be as static as shown here. I would at least experiment with the island position. The minimum would be to move it so people entering don’t bump into it. I would also rotate it, so when cooking you can look towards the hallway window (top of the plan).
Upstairs, I would recess the bedroom door and prefer to have a short hallway instead.
The bedroom is too dark; opposite the door a double casement window is missing.
Personally, I would avoid floor-to-ceiling windows in bedrooms and bathrooms, including children’s rooms, and instead install wide windows with a sill. The narrow slits don’t provide sufficient daylight for attic rooms. In theory, yes, but in practice it’s not enough. In the bathroom: make the shower longer and shorten the toilet area, possibly turning it towards the room.
Light in the hallway: why keep the attic at all? Nobody voluntarily goes up there anymore if there is usable space in the basement. I would give up the attic and either open the rooms upstairs to the roof or only make the hallway open and access the rest, for example bathroom and bedroom, from the hallway via side vertical roof windows that can be climbed onto.
driver55 schrieb:
You either like it or you don’t. Maybe one should simply say that “it could be that the green kitchen does not conform to generally accepted aesthetics.”
driver55 schrieb:
“The honest one is always the fool”? That’s right! The smart one still keeps quiet and stays reserved when things get tricky. But a good friend will never be like that.
P
pagoni202010 Aug 2021 18:44driver55 schrieb:
Either you like it or you don't. That is completely independent of any evaluations or comments from the forum. Machine: YES
Human: sometimes/often NO
You’re naturally curious about how it looks and usually carry a certain level of uncertainty... who really wants to read that "it" looks stupid or is a design mistake? Apparently, it’s not that simple, otherwise you wouldn’t receive such responses.
However, it is true that criticism should come beforehand because it is often helpful, although sometimes people do not really want to hear it.
P
pagoni202010 Aug 2021 19:13driver55 schrieb:
Kitchen door opening outwards I would remove it completely, including the short wall section; it can be designed nicely otherwise.
erazorlll schrieb:
We were also considering a sliding door I wouldn’t, since it will probably mostly remain open anyway.
erazorlll schrieb:
The architect advised against a skylight in the hallway Also, it often causes significant heat gain.
pagoni2020 schrieb:
What is true is that criticism should come beforehand because it is often helpful, although sometimes people do not really want to hear it.I repeat, if it says “feedback wanted,” then you will get feedback, of all kinds. And that only happens once plans are shown. Whether these are already the detailed construction drawings or the excavator is about to arrive is not my concern. Otherwise, you have to say, “Please just look and keep quiet.” 😉E
erazorlll11 Aug 2021 22:31driver55 schrieb:
I repeat, when it says “feedback wanted,” you will get all kinds of feedback. And that only happens once plans are shown.
Whether that’s already the detailed construction plans or the excavator is arriving soon is not my concern.
Otherwise, you should just say, “Please only look and keep quiet.” 😉 I think you misunderstood my reply. I wasn’t referring to this thread here (see quote) where you can give feedback as you like. But looking at your recent posts (generally here in the forum), they tend to be either lecturing or negative comments. And when someone asks for your floor plan, your response is basically “I’m not sharing it here.” I just think that’s the wrong attitude, but that is only my opinion.
That’s where I’ll leave it now and get back to the topic.
ypg schrieb:
I see a few minor things, and I still have the courage to mention them.
Shift the door to the granny flat/hallway: it’s directly opposite the load-bearing wall. You should consider placing it facing the main entrance or the stairs. Both options have advantages, maybe try rearranging the furniture 😉 For example, I see the kitchen corner more likely on the outside wall. The windowless bathroom could also be inside. True, I hadn’t noticed the door issue before and need to take another look. You basically run straight into the wall when coming through that door.
Regarding the bathroom: I have to leave the load-bearing internal walls as they are, since the structural calculations are already complete. Did you have a specific idea on how it could or should be arranged?
ypg schrieb:
The laundry chute is very poorly placed. It disrupts the layout quite a bit.
I would get rid of it. Please no, I fought hard for that 😉
Yes, I understand what you mean and we were close to removing the laundry chute. But then we wrote down the compromises we'd have to accept in that case. The basement wouldn’t really change. On the main floor, however, there is a pipe running through the living room, which is the biggest downside. We made this dependent on how well the stove fitter could box it in and make it look nice. He reassured us somewhat and, in my opinion, managed it quite well (picture to follow). Upstairs, we had to move a door, which made Bedroom 2 about 0.8m² (9 sq ft) smaller. Of course, that's not ideal, since it wasn’t the biggest room to begin with. On the other hand, the older child may eventually move into the granny flat, and the bedroom will likely be repurposed anyway. So we are talking about a slightly smaller room for a few years versus “a lifetime” of convenience from the laundry chute.
But I agree with you, we do have to make several compromises.
ypg schrieb:
I think the pantry is very well placed in the semi-detached house floor plan, with the entrance on the basement level.
Walking a few meters is totally fine. It’s not a backup kitchen. The latter should be located behind or next to a show kitchen. We really would have liked the pantry right next to the kitchen and really liked that in all the kitchen designs. The first plans even had it that way, but then the kitchen ended up quite small and upstairs with the dressing room, we were way under the sloped roof. So we decided on the separate option and I think a few meters of walking is okay.
ypg schrieb:
I would move the office door slightly downwards on the plan. Thanks, I’ll pass that on to my wife – it’s “her” office.
ypg schrieb:
Regarding the kitchen or open-plan room door, I agree with @driver55: this access is too important to be spoiled by this poorly planned door. My opinion. Option 1: remove it entirely. You don’t need the door.
Option 2 or a combination: seriously consider breaking up the dull symmetry of the kitchen as it is drawn. A kitchen doesn’t have to be as static as shown here. I’d at least try moving the island around. The minimum is to move it so that someone entering doesn’t bang into it. I would also rotate it so when cooking, you can look towards the corridor window (top of plan). Yes, the door isn’t planned very well.
We know friends who have a similar layout with the staircase fully in the living area along the wall – the kind you sometimes see in semi-detached house plans with an open staircase. Initially, that worked well, but later they paid a lot to install a wall and door. The reason was that sound transmission between floors was significant, and they had to be careful not to make too much noise in the living area so as not to wake the kids upstairs (no loud movies, no putting away dishes late, etc.). I can’t say how much of that was personal preference or subjective perception, but it sounded reasonable at first.
We’ll rethink this and look for another solution. Rotating the island is out of the question for me. But I can imagine installing just a door frame (no door) and leaving it open for now. Alternatively or additionally, we could move the island further down. Of course, that would narrow the passageway, but then you’d have to walk around on the right side, which would be okay for going from the garden through the narrow passage. I’ll give it some thought.
ypg schrieb:
Upstairs, I would recess the bedroom door and rather have the slider in the hallway. I need to check if any changes are still possible here because of the load-bearing wall and structural calculations.
ypg schrieb:
The bedroom is too dark; it lacks a double casement window opposite the door. Now you’re making me uncertain. In our last planning meeting with the builder, we specifically asked whether we should install a double skylight for more light. He said the floor-to-ceiling window and the skylight are sufficient, and since the room is just for sleeping, that’s enough.
ypg schrieb:
Personally, I would avoid floor-to-ceiling windows in bedrooms and bathrooms, including children’s rooms, and instead install wide windows with sills. Narrow skylights don’t practically provide enough light for attic rooms. Theoretically yes, but not in reality. I don’t know how much can still be changed, since the structural calculations are already done. We really like the floor-to-ceiling windows, but they’re less practical in the bathroom. Also in the bathroom, the question is whether I want a window directly above the bathtub.
ypg schrieb:
In the bathroom: make the shower wall longer and shorten the toilet area, possibly turn it towards the room. I noticed during the bathroom selection that the splash guard is only about 1.15m (3.8 ft) before the room opens up. We may move the toilet a bit to the left on the plan.
ypg schrieb:
Hallway lighting: what’s the point of keeping the only attic? Nobody voluntarily goes there if there is usable space in the basement. I would give up the attic and either open up the upper floor rooms towards the ceiling or create crawlable vertical roof windows from the hallway over bathrooms and bedrooms on the side. We initially planned for an open ridge but didn’t like it and explicitly rejected it. At some point we had 2.80m (9.2 ft) ceiling height, but reduced it to 2.65m (8.7 ft) because in the rooms at the top and bottom of the plan, most of the space was sloped roof and very little flat area. It looked bad in the 3D model.
The daylight spot solution was something we saw in another customer’s home by the general contractor and it worked quite well. And I think eventually you’ll appreciate the extra storage space in the attic since the basement isn’t that big.
Thanks again for your comments!
erazorlll schrieb:
Regarding the bathroom: I have to keep the load-bearing interior walls as they are since the structural calculation is already complete. Did you have a specific idea on how it could or should be arranged? Just without the garbage chute. Otherwise, leave it as is; it would get too complicated. I saw the added value as making the kitchen brighter. Like I said, the garbage chute is quite in the way. But it’s your house...
erazorlll schrieb:
He then said that the floor-to-ceiling window and the skylight would be sufficient since the room is only for sleeping. I would disagree: as I said, mathematically, so theoretically, the existing window should be enough, but it will be dark opposite the door. And you don’t only sleep in the bedroom; you want it to be pleasant as well. You spend time there when you’re sick, sometimes exercise, or iron clothes. I’m not a fan of the floor-to-ceiling slits anyway—you get more light in the room with a horizontal arrangement, such as a 150cm (59 inch) window with a window sill.
erazorlll schrieb:
Because the basement downstairs isn’t that big either. That’s what you mean. It will definitely be more than sufficient; it’s almost 35sqm (377 sq ft), which you access via a fixed staircase.
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