Dear all, I have been following the discussions in this forum for some time and find the feedback on individual questions very helpful. We are building for the first time – with all the knowledge gaps that come with it… ;-)
Our plot is challenging because it is triangular, narrow, and has a requirement of 4m (13 feet) setbacks at the front building line and 20m (66 feet) to the tip. However, the orientation is great, and we have a beautiful distant view. We want to preserve as much garden space as possible and also enjoy an unobstructed view of nature and maximum sunlight – from sunrise to sunset. That’s why we are considering a partly “floating” living area on the upper floor with a terrace and access to the garden. Direct access from the ground floor to the garden is not a priority for us.
Due to building regulations, a large portion to the east remains undevelopable or possibly usable for outbuildings. Access is intended through this area, which will become the front garden. The house should be wheelchair accessible. The space should be used optimally, with plenty of storage, flexible, multifunctional rooms, and large floor-to-ceiling windows/doors or fixed glazing.
What do you think of our ideas? What weaknesses do you see?
Thanks in advance for any honest criticism and suggestions.
Development plan
Plot size – 590m2 (6350 sq ft)
Slight slope and southwest orientation
Maximum height – 8m (26 feet)
Client requirements
Clear lines, flat or shed roof
Floors – ground floor, upper floor, attic, total approx. 190m2 (2045 sq ft)
Occupants – 2 people in their prime and 2 dogs
Office: home office
Annual guest sleepers – 5 to 10
Open architecture
Construction method – modern design, clear and minimal shapes with interesting accents and deliberate contrasts that give the house a discreet uniqueness (facade, materials, etc.)
Open kitchen, possibly an island, but with some visual screening (bar or similar)
Number of dining seats – 8
Fireplace – ideally as a room divider between living and dining areas
Music/sound wall – soundbar at the TV, additional speakers distributed throughout the house
Balcony, roof terrace – on upper floor and attic
Carport for 2 cars
House design
Architect’s plan
Ground floor – entrance, utility rooms, fitness/work/guest room, bathroom & sauna
Upper floor – living, cooking & dining, close to nature, sunny, cozy, “public area,” terrace
Attic – bedrooms, sunny private retreat area, terrace
Garden – ideally visually extended, covered terrace, biotope near the terrace
What do you particularly like?
The open living-dining area on the first floor, the floor-to-ceiling windows, the path of the sun through the living area.
What do you not like?
We feel the room layout could be better, and maybe the same living feeling can be achieved with less square footage.
On the ground floor, only the sauna is shown; shower, sink, and toilet are still missing. The large room for fitness/work/guest use seems a bit oversized.
Preferred heating technology: geothermal probes and photovoltaic panels on the roof
Attachments: site plan, floor plans, exterior view
Our plot is challenging because it is triangular, narrow, and has a requirement of 4m (13 feet) setbacks at the front building line and 20m (66 feet) to the tip. However, the orientation is great, and we have a beautiful distant view. We want to preserve as much garden space as possible and also enjoy an unobstructed view of nature and maximum sunlight – from sunrise to sunset. That’s why we are considering a partly “floating” living area on the upper floor with a terrace and access to the garden. Direct access from the ground floor to the garden is not a priority for us.
Due to building regulations, a large portion to the east remains undevelopable or possibly usable for outbuildings. Access is intended through this area, which will become the front garden. The house should be wheelchair accessible. The space should be used optimally, with plenty of storage, flexible, multifunctional rooms, and large floor-to-ceiling windows/doors or fixed glazing.
What do you think of our ideas? What weaknesses do you see?
Thanks in advance for any honest criticism and suggestions.
Development plan
Plot size – 590m2 (6350 sq ft)
Slight slope and southwest orientation
Maximum height – 8m (26 feet)
Client requirements
Clear lines, flat or shed roof
Floors – ground floor, upper floor, attic, total approx. 190m2 (2045 sq ft)
Occupants – 2 people in their prime and 2 dogs
Office: home office
Annual guest sleepers – 5 to 10
Open architecture
Construction method – modern design, clear and minimal shapes with interesting accents and deliberate contrasts that give the house a discreet uniqueness (facade, materials, etc.)
Open kitchen, possibly an island, but with some visual screening (bar or similar)
Number of dining seats – 8
Fireplace – ideally as a room divider between living and dining areas
Music/sound wall – soundbar at the TV, additional speakers distributed throughout the house
Balcony, roof terrace – on upper floor and attic
Carport for 2 cars
House design
Architect’s plan
Ground floor – entrance, utility rooms, fitness/work/guest room, bathroom & sauna
Upper floor – living, cooking & dining, close to nature, sunny, cozy, “public area,” terrace
Attic – bedrooms, sunny private retreat area, terrace
Garden – ideally visually extended, covered terrace, biotope near the terrace
What do you particularly like?
The open living-dining area on the first floor, the floor-to-ceiling windows, the path of the sun through the living area.
What do you not like?
We feel the room layout could be better, and maybe the same living feeling can be achieved with less square footage.
On the ground floor, only the sauna is shown; shower, sink, and toilet are still missing. The large room for fitness/work/guest use seems a bit oversized.
Preferred heating technology: geothermal probes and photovoltaic panels on the roof
Attachments: site plan, floor plans, exterior view
motorradsilke schrieb:
A cost-saving measure for me would be to omit the recess at the lower right of the plan. …
Then place the kitchen cabinets (tall units) along the right-hand wall of the plan (since there are no windows there) and rotate the island by 90 degrees. …
And definitely, I would add a toilet below the sauna area. Thank you for your helpful feedback, Silke. I’m not really sure if the bay windows are worth the extra cost anyway, and this seems like a good practical way to reduce expenses. I will discuss this with the architect.
We planned the island’s orientation also as a visual barrier and bar when guests visit, so they don’t immediately see a messy kitchen… 😉 But maybe it could be angled around the corner. I need to rethink the tall cabinets in relation to the windows, thanks to @kbt09 for that. 🙂
As for the sauna, the shower, hand basin, and toilet are not yet shown, and overall I’m still not satisfied with this floor plan. So far, I haven’t had the breakthrough idea and I’m happy to receive suggestions.
Sunny_OE schrieb:
We also thought of the island's orientation as a privacy screen and bar,To actually provide privacy, something like that needs to be at least human height; anything less is just an illusion 😉M
motorradsilke13 Aug 2022 13:58Sunny_OE schrieb:
Thanks for your helpful feedback, Silke. I’m not really sure if the bay windows are worth the extra cost, and they would be a practical way to reduce expenses. I’ll discuss this with the architect.
We had also thought of the island as a privacy screen and bar area, especially when guests come, so they don’t immediately see a messy kitchen… 😉 But maybe it could be extended around the corner. I still need to reconsider the tall cabinets in relation to the windows, thanks to @kbt09. 🙂
The sauna’s plans don’t yet include the shower, hand basin, or toilet, and overall I’m still not happy with this level. So far, I haven’t come up with a great idea and would appreciate suggestions. As I mentioned before, a standalone island is not an effective privacy screen.
I would position the sauna closer to the window and install a glass door, so you can look out onto the garden. What else are you planning to include in the wellness room?
G
Gerddieter13 Aug 2022 14:00Neubau2022 schrieb:
I don’t doubt that. I am quite certain it won’t work out. It will probably be closer to 800,000 euros.Definitely, and that’s without additional costs, garage, garden... then it’s a million, and that’s without any "luxury" features like KNX or similar extras... unfortunately.
I just read through the entire thread in one go. A few things caught my attention.
First of all, this is by far the most interesting and beautiful house here for a long time.
A “wow” for the design, which I won’t judge further in detail since I’m not an expert in floor plans.
Then there’s the mentioned age of the client: “in the prime of life.”
What exactly that means has been on my mind the whole time. Presumably, it’s always the present moment when someone is in their prime – right?
The writing style, the mention of yoga, etc., lead me to assume that both are very calm internally, grounded in life, and professionally at least above average in success. Because even if the budget for the house is kept (which, given the existing creative potential, is not out of the question), with additional construction costs, pool, landscaping, and land, the seven-figure mark is almost certainly reached or probably significantly exceeded. Also, please don’t forget the ongoing costs, especially regarding the pool and elevator… But from now on, I would leave the budget topic entirely to the clients. I trust both to keep an eye on it! Also, the planner is an architect (not an architect in the male form).
I wish you much success and look forward to more (detailed) pictures and nice progress updates.
First of all, this is by far the most interesting and beautiful house here for a long time.
A “wow” for the design, which I won’t judge further in detail since I’m not an expert in floor plans.
Then there’s the mentioned age of the client: “in the prime of life.”
What exactly that means has been on my mind the whole time. Presumably, it’s always the present moment when someone is in their prime – right?
The writing style, the mention of yoga, etc., lead me to assume that both are very calm internally, grounded in life, and professionally at least above average in success. Because even if the budget for the house is kept (which, given the existing creative potential, is not out of the question), with additional construction costs, pool, landscaping, and land, the seven-figure mark is almost certainly reached or probably significantly exceeded. Also, please don’t forget the ongoing costs, especially regarding the pool and elevator… But from now on, I would leave the budget topic entirely to the clients. I trust both to keep an eye on it! Also, the planner is an architect (not an architect in the male form).
I wish you much success and look forward to more (detailed) pictures and nice progress updates.
knuutnaundorf schrieb:
I'm not sure. When you think of an architect-designed house, you usually imagine a home that stands out through well-planned spatial layout, distinctive design elements, or special style.knuutnaundorf schrieb:
If you build such a house and only have 18 or 15 sqm (194 or 161 sq.ft) left for the bedrooms, that’s too little. Much too small. I would build bigger.Was that a question? The first point matters. Not the size.If you have more money, you can go bigger as well.
Sunny_OE schrieb:
Construction style – modern design, clear and minimalist forms with interesting accents and deliberate breaks that give the house a discreet uniqueness (façade, materials, etc.).Before I comment on budgeting, I want to ask some questions that haven’t been raised yet and can’t be clearly answered based on the plans or explanations.
Sunny_OE schrieb:
The orientation is great, and we have a nice distant view.Sunny_OE schrieb:
A large part of the eastern side is undevelopable or maybe usable for outbuildings. The entrance is supposed to be through this area.Where is north? What is the exact orientation of the house and the living room? Does the access from the east mean the house or the lot? Does the garage face south or east? The driveway looks as if it’s on the south side. My question about the street location…
ypg schrieb:
Oh Lord, give me a street 😀 where should I be looking?… this is not a coincidence and was unfortunately not answered. Your “site plan” is actually a topographic map and very confusing. The landscaping shown is also distracting. The rectangles drawn (buildings?) do not reflect the actual building volume. There are no dimensions, at least no wall measurements, which makes assessment difficult. In the 3D animation: what is the gray block on the left?Sunny_OE schrieb:
People – 2 in their prime and 2 dogs.How old exactly are you? “In their prime” can mean anywhere from 30 to 75… but building considerations differ greatly between mid-50s and mid-70s. I find it difficult to see this house as truly accessible or barrier-free…!Sunny_OE schrieb:
My main question is whether there are ideas and suggestions for improving the floor plan or if you notice any design flaws. That would be very helpful. We have our budget in mind.But for that, certain details are needed. At least wall dimensions are the minimum to assess whether, for example, the dining area can be reduced by half. Looking at the design, I see no neighbors! It looks more like an isolated woodland plot… What about neighboring buildings? Should they or shouldn’t they have a view inside? Should the glass be reflective or mirrored?
A very large house designed by an architect – at least the planner shows creativity and plays with design aspects, which is impressive at first. Then the headline says 200 sqm (2,153 sq.ft), 2 “best ager” people etc… so family or child-friendliness is clearly not the focus. This allows creative freedom.
…But unfortunately not within the budget.
200 sqm for a simple building form _without_ bay windows or decorative elements, _without_ large spans that increase structural costs for ceilings and windows, a plain plaster façade _without_ costly projections requiring expensive roof waterproofing, and certainly _without_ a suspended room that basically floats in the air… roughly estimated at this time, around 600,000€ (~$650,000). A contingency is recommended nowadays; maybe 50,000€ (~$54,000) buffer would suffice (note: simple building form, plain finishes).
It’s not that we all have poor or cheap taste just because of plaster façades and simple shapes, but budgets are limited everywhere.
Sunny_OE schrieb:
That’s why the idea is to design part of the living area “floating” on the upper floor with a terrace and direct access to the garden.Sunny_OE schrieb:
Examples: fixed glazing instead of multiple sliding doors, cast asphalt floors, corrugated metal façade, polycarbonate panels, geothermal baskets… And yes, as Katja already mentioned, maybe also a bit smaller.I don’t see this matching with these wishes. When I was in my early 30s, I looked into low-budget building: corrugated metal roofs, no lintels over windows, pipes on concrete, concrete floors… but back then it wasn’t cheaper (excluding own labor) and today it’s even less so, since reductions are nowadays design features – and design is very expensive (even if it doesn’t have to be). These are not designer sneakers you can just buy around the corner.Your fixed panoramic window on the upper floor already costs a small fortune in transport alone, plus the complicated statics needed here swallow a huge amount…
Fixed glazing on the top floor requires balconies and overhangs… which don’t come for free. Sloped site, too…
Glass balustrades on terraces: you said you don’t want that. Then have the house designed with “cheap” railings and some support beams for the prefabricated construction in the open-plan area, and then see if it’s still the house you want to build. With all this floating statics, expensive flooring, large window fronts, three long stylish staircases, other frills like a fireplace, plus energy efficiency (heat coming in through windows, running out again with the air conditioning, insulation of exposed floors and roofs like in the living area) I would add at least 30% extra costs and another 100,000€ (~$108,000) as a buffer. Others with better estimating skills have come to similar conclusions.
Sunny_OE schrieb:
My main question is whether there are ideas and suggestions for improving the floor plan or if you notice any design flaws.Sunny_OE schrieb:
What weaknesses do you see?Design flaw number 1 is the budget… where should you start building a dream house if it can’t remain just that? Ignoring it helps nothing.
Sunny_OE schrieb:
The many purely “this will never work” comments unfortunately don’t help me…Then tell us what you are willing to give up. Because you haven’t answered that question.If you need to make concessions, which details/features
-can you do without:
Design flaw number 2:
Sunny_OE schrieb:
Direct access from the ground floor to the garden is not that important to us.Sunny_OE schrieb:
The house should be barrier-free.That also includes the bathtub 😉
Design flaw number 3
Sunny_OE schrieb:
Biotope near the terrace.Keeps out mosquitos and noisy frogs 😉Seriously though: Is a house barrier-free just because it has a lift? The toilets and dressing rooms certainly are not.
Regarding the floor plan:
An entrance hall over 15 sqm (161 sq.ft), sauna without plants, rest area in the middle of files… this has already been mentioned.
The kitchen is a real challenge. If the planned enlargement of the upper floor bathroom goes ahead, people will likely avoid the toilet because there would be a direct view axis to the kitchen.
The living/dining area is huge. Do you actually want that? Fireplace… why is it there without a chimney?
And Katja already pointed out: excessively long corridors for two people… you won’t even get to the door before the gardener is gone… better have a video phone for communication.
If the bedrooms are only used by one person each, they could also be used as offices or downsized. Or move the sauna upstairs.
Or put both bedrooms with bathroom and sauna in the basement, and have a guest area on the ground floor… I would try to reduce the number of floors.
Shortening the dining area by about 3 meters (10 ft), so there is still nice space upstairs, would be possible, but there would still be three floors… definitely at least one too many for two “best ager” occupants.
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