Hello everyone,
A brief preliminary note:
The desire to build a house has existed for some time. I have been intensively researching this complex topic (including smart home technology) for about 2 to 3 months now. The approximate building plot is identified but not yet finalized, as the city still needs to establish a zoning plan there. Currently, the city is waiting for the soil test results.
Therefore, it doesn’t make sense to answer all the questions from the pinned post yet, since nothing is definite — except that my wife and I want to build an urban villa of about 180-200 m² (1,940-2,150 sq ft) with an attached (double) garage.
When planning the floor layout, the living room and kitchen area is proving to be very challenging.
We do not want an open kitchen because, first, we don’t want cooking odors in the living room, and second, we want to watch TV calmly in the living room even when someone is cooking in the kitchen. So, the following plan is not suitable for us:
left: U-shaped sofa with TV and surround sound system
center: fireplace and dining table
right: kitchen
However, the plan gives a rough idea of the proportions and space requirements.
(I have roughly estimated the fireplace and the necessary clearance around it.)
The dining table should normally seat 4 people and be extendable to at least 8 for guests.
The kitchen does not have to be U-shaped. A kitchen island is not desired.
A patio door is desired from either the kitchen or dining area.
I tried to insert a partial wall with a large sliding door between the dining table and sofa, but this is not possible due to the fireplace’s position.
Maybe someone here has struggled with the same or similar conditions.
Best regards,
Dennis
A brief preliminary note:
The desire to build a house has existed for some time. I have been intensively researching this complex topic (including smart home technology) for about 2 to 3 months now. The approximate building plot is identified but not yet finalized, as the city still needs to establish a zoning plan there. Currently, the city is waiting for the soil test results.
Therefore, it doesn’t make sense to answer all the questions from the pinned post yet, since nothing is definite — except that my wife and I want to build an urban villa of about 180-200 m² (1,940-2,150 sq ft) with an attached (double) garage.
When planning the floor layout, the living room and kitchen area is proving to be very challenging.
We do not want an open kitchen because, first, we don’t want cooking odors in the living room, and second, we want to watch TV calmly in the living room even when someone is cooking in the kitchen. So, the following plan is not suitable for us:
left: U-shaped sofa with TV and surround sound system
center: fireplace and dining table
right: kitchen
However, the plan gives a rough idea of the proportions and space requirements.
(I have roughly estimated the fireplace and the necessary clearance around it.)
The dining table should normally seat 4 people and be extendable to at least 8 for guests.
The kitchen does not have to be U-shaped. A kitchen island is not desired.
A patio door is desired from either the kitchen or dining area.
I tried to insert a partial wall with a large sliding door between the dining table and sofa, but this is not possible due to the fireplace’s position.
Maybe someone here has struggled with the same or similar conditions.
Best regards,
Dennis
I think it’s a bit early to start thinking about the interior layout when it isn’t even clear yet HOW you are allowed to build. Maybe the development plan doesn’t even allow a townhouse? Because two-story construction might not be permitted?
That’s why I find it very vague right now, and my enthusiasm to make major suggestions is quite low—wait until you have the solid basic data, and THEN you can really start thinking about it. At the moment, it isn’t even clear if building is allowed at all...
But sure, once that is certain, it makes sense to consider things.
I’m not trying to convince you to go with an open floor plan. Some like it, some don’t. Everyone should do what they prefer.
But let me tell you one thing right away (which might actually give you more freedom in your layout): forget the idea that cooking odors (they smell good to me when I cook *g*) can be stopped by a sliding door. Even normal doors don’t do that. If you cook extensively, you will smell it in the adjacent living room.
The only solution here is to ventilate well afterward or/and install a really good extractor fan (but those are expensive).
At my parents’ house, we have a separate, completely closed kitchen (and the door is closed while cooking), and the smell is still everywhere. So in my opinion, this argument for a closed kitchen is obsolete.
Of course, there are other reasons to keep them separate, for example, if you want to watch TV undisturbed from time to time.
But just something to think about: every additional wall costs space (you probably notice this yourself because it’s somehow not working out, right?). If it’s only about not being disturbed too much when watching TV, I would consider separating the kitchen with a frosted glass wall (all or partly frosted). That takes up much less space and keeps the overall area brighter.
But for now, just wait and see what the building authority says. In the meantime, gather as much input as possible, visit show homes, look at websites with architect-designed houses (even if you plan to build a standard house with a general contractor, those provide great inspiration), think about what you want for your kitchen and what you don’t (visiting kitchen showrooms helps a lot! Sometimes they even have cooking demonstrations where you can see appliances in action and decide what you want).
Also, try to move away from your initial idea (townhouse) and be open to all kinds of inspiration. Maybe you aren’t even allowed to build that way? Check out building blogs, ask people who have recently built, maybe visit general or design-build contractors to ask how they plan and their timelines. How do you want to build? Solid construction? Wood? Timber frame??? Now is the time to inform yourselves about all the possibilities here. What technology is available, and which do you want? Maybe there’s a building fair nearby: GO!
So before thinking about where to put the TV and surround sound system, I would focus on getting the basics right.
That’s why I find it very vague right now, and my enthusiasm to make major suggestions is quite low—wait until you have the solid basic data, and THEN you can really start thinking about it. At the moment, it isn’t even clear if building is allowed at all...
But sure, once that is certain, it makes sense to consider things.
I’m not trying to convince you to go with an open floor plan. Some like it, some don’t. Everyone should do what they prefer.
But let me tell you one thing right away (which might actually give you more freedom in your layout): forget the idea that cooking odors (they smell good to me when I cook *g*) can be stopped by a sliding door. Even normal doors don’t do that. If you cook extensively, you will smell it in the adjacent living room.
The only solution here is to ventilate well afterward or/and install a really good extractor fan (but those are expensive).
At my parents’ house, we have a separate, completely closed kitchen (and the door is closed while cooking), and the smell is still everywhere. So in my opinion, this argument for a closed kitchen is obsolete.
Of course, there are other reasons to keep them separate, for example, if you want to watch TV undisturbed from time to time.
But just something to think about: every additional wall costs space (you probably notice this yourself because it’s somehow not working out, right?). If it’s only about not being disturbed too much when watching TV, I would consider separating the kitchen with a frosted glass wall (all or partly frosted). That takes up much less space and keeps the overall area brighter.
But for now, just wait and see what the building authority says. In the meantime, gather as much input as possible, visit show homes, look at websites with architect-designed houses (even if you plan to build a standard house with a general contractor, those provide great inspiration), think about what you want for your kitchen and what you don’t (visiting kitchen showrooms helps a lot! Sometimes they even have cooking demonstrations where you can see appliances in action and decide what you want).
Also, try to move away from your initial idea (townhouse) and be open to all kinds of inspiration. Maybe you aren’t even allowed to build that way? Check out building blogs, ask people who have recently built, maybe visit general or design-build contractors to ask how they plan and their timelines. How do you want to build? Solid construction? Wood? Timber frame??? Now is the time to inform yourselves about all the possibilities here. What technology is available, and which do you want? Maybe there’s a building fair nearby: GO!
So before thinking about where to put the TV and surround sound system, I would focus on getting the basics right.
denz. schrieb:
The area of the living room and kitchen proves to be very challenging during the floor plan design.@Climbee says it: it is definitely too early to think about seating positions or the arrangement of the rooms relative to each other, because you are putting the cart before the horse.
First comes the plot of land, and only after this (location, orientation, shape, and planning permission / building permit) is the house designed, initially roughly estimating the space requirements, then moving on to the fine-tuning—how large with what technology.
denz. schrieb:
Because: we don’t want an open kitchen, first because we don’t want the cooking odors in the living room and second because we want to watch TV in the living room undisturbed even when cooking is happening in the kitchen.Who is cooking the food that smells (cooking class?), and who is sitting in front of the TV at that time not wanting to be disturbed? Maybe you should switch roles once in a while? 🙂 What I mean is: a lot can change over time 😉
A tip: before uploading color drafts in the forum, when the time comes, just use white graph paper and a pencil—usually that reveals much more 🙂
I am fundamentally open to suggestions, tips, advice, etc., but hmm... I had imagined it differently 😀
Everything is probably correct, but not necessarily applicable to my case. I thought the described conditions would be sufficient for the problem outlined, since whether it becomes a town villa or not basically has nothing to do with the layout/division of the two rooms, living room and kitchen. Likewise, the construction method—solid/wood frame etc.—does not seem relevant to me in this context. But anyway, many thanks for your explanation @Climbee, about why you are not or hardly willing to get involved in finding a solution. Therefore, I will add a few more remarks.
New detached houses are planned within an urban area (approximately 20,000 inhabitants). As mentioned, a soil survey is currently being carried out for this purpose. We (my partner and I) are looking for a building plot within the city and have therefore contacted the responsible city planning office. As a result, we found a potential building site near an area already planned for development. After discussions with a lady from the office, our building plot will now be included in the development plan. The city also favors town villas in this area. Our preferred plot size of about 1200m² (13,000 sq ft) is also possible. So there is plenty of space available.
Whether the odor will still come through remains to be seen (a controlled ventilation system is also planned). Nevertheless, the odor factor is significantly smaller with separate rooms than with an open kitchen.
I will give the idea of the frosted glass wall some more thought.
Regarding input, building blogs, etc.: That has long since been done and is, of course, still ongoing. I don’t even know for how long, but for at least a year I have been reading building blogs and gathering information (mostly online) on all topics related to house construction (heating, controlled ventilation, smart home, financing, and so on).
Location and orientation are, as mentioned, fixed. The shape? Well, it probably won’t be perfectly rectangular but certainly not round either ^^ I expect the aspect ratio to be around 2:3 or 2:4 (with the street, of course, on the shorter side).
Certainly some things will change over time, but I can only base my assumptions on what I know now and what seems likely.
I don’t quite understand how one can see NOTHING in the image. Surely there are prettier drawings in terms of colors, but you should be able to make sense of it, or are you all blind? 😕
EDIT: I know most people do it differently and simply say “I need a 20m² (215 sq ft) bathroom and a 30m² (323 sq ft) living room,” etc. But I prefer to think about what I want to put into the bathroom, living room, etc., and what might come later in order to design the best possible floor plan. 20m² (215 sq ft) can be planned so badly that it brings much less benefit than if you think it through carefully beforehand. At least that’s my opinion, even though I have never built a house before.
EDIT2: If everything goes more or less as usual, construction can probably start between spring and summer 2018. Since I want to plan everything as precisely as possible and also intend to do a lot of the work myself, I prefer to allow more rather than less time until then.
Everything is probably correct, but not necessarily applicable to my case. I thought the described conditions would be sufficient for the problem outlined, since whether it becomes a town villa or not basically has nothing to do with the layout/division of the two rooms, living room and kitchen. Likewise, the construction method—solid/wood frame etc.—does not seem relevant to me in this context. But anyway, many thanks for your explanation @Climbee, about why you are not or hardly willing to get involved in finding a solution. Therefore, I will add a few more remarks.
New detached houses are planned within an urban area (approximately 20,000 inhabitants). As mentioned, a soil survey is currently being carried out for this purpose. We (my partner and I) are looking for a building plot within the city and have therefore contacted the responsible city planning office. As a result, we found a potential building site near an area already planned for development. After discussions with a lady from the office, our building plot will now be included in the development plan. The city also favors town villas in this area. Our preferred plot size of about 1200m² (13,000 sq ft) is also possible. So there is plenty of space available.
Whether the odor will still come through remains to be seen (a controlled ventilation system is also planned). Nevertheless, the odor factor is significantly smaller with separate rooms than with an open kitchen.
I will give the idea of the frosted glass wall some more thought.
Regarding input, building blogs, etc.: That has long since been done and is, of course, still ongoing. I don’t even know for how long, but for at least a year I have been reading building blogs and gathering information (mostly online) on all topics related to house construction (heating, controlled ventilation, smart home, financing, and so on).
ypg schrieb:
First comes the plot, and after this (location, orientation, shape, and development plan), the house is planned—initially roughly where space requirements might be, then the fine tuning -> how big, with what technology.
Location and orientation are, as mentioned, fixed. The shape? Well, it probably won’t be perfectly rectangular but certainly not round either ^^ I expect the aspect ratio to be around 2:3 or 2:4 (with the street, of course, on the shorter side).
Certainly some things will change over time, but I can only base my assumptions on what I know now and what seems likely.
I don’t quite understand how one can see NOTHING in the image. Surely there are prettier drawings in terms of colors, but you should be able to make sense of it, or are you all blind? 😕
EDIT: I know most people do it differently and simply say “I need a 20m² (215 sq ft) bathroom and a 30m² (323 sq ft) living room,” etc. But I prefer to think about what I want to put into the bathroom, living room, etc., and what might come later in order to design the best possible floor plan. 20m² (215 sq ft) can be planned so badly that it brings much less benefit than if you think it through carefully beforehand. At least that’s my opinion, even though I have never built a house before.
EDIT2: If everything goes more or less as usual, construction can probably start between spring and summer 2018. Since I want to plan everything as precisely as possible and also intend to do a lot of the work myself, I prefer to allow more rather than less time until then.
1200 sqm (13000 sq ft)???
Wow! Are both of you working full time? Then you must both be gardening enthusiasts?
Just the thought of maintaining a garden that size alone would have me applying for rehabilitation *gasp*
The building footprint should be large enough to allow enough space for the desired wall, and the fireplace won’t be an issue either.
However, it makes sense to first wait for the exact building plot outline to know how much floor area is available for the living room and kitchen, and how it’s laid out. Anything else is just guesswork, and that’s not my hobby.
There is a difference whether the footprint is 17 by 12 meters (56 by 39 feet), 19 by 10 meters (62 by 33 feet), or only 12 by 7 meters (39 by 23 feet).
Wow! Are both of you working full time? Then you must both be gardening enthusiasts?
Just the thought of maintaining a garden that size alone would have me applying for rehabilitation *gasp*
The building footprint should be large enough to allow enough space for the desired wall, and the fireplace won’t be an issue either.
However, it makes sense to first wait for the exact building plot outline to know how much floor area is available for the living room and kitchen, and how it’s laid out. Anything else is just guesswork, and that’s not my hobby.
There is a difference whether the footprint is 17 by 12 meters (56 by 39 feet), 19 by 10 meters (62 by 33 feet), or only 12 by 7 meters (39 by 23 feet).
Similar topics