ᐅ Floor plan for a 200 m² hillside house with a granny flat / secondary unit
Created on: 25 Jan 2022 11:00
M
moooooo32
Development Plan / Restrictions
Plot Size: 388sqm (4179 sqft)
Slope: Yes, facing northwest
Site Coverage Ratio, Floor Area Ratio: The architect has not provided details yet; we are building according to Paragraph 34
Building Envelope, Building Line and Boundary: Maximum house width 8.80m (29 ft), former house length of existing building 14m (46 ft)
Number of Parking Spaces:
Number of Floors:
Roof Style: Gable roof
Orientation: According to the slope, ridge also facing northwest
Client Requirements
Architectural Style, Roof Type, Building Type: Gable roof
Basement, Number of Floors: 2 levels,[/I]5 plus attic space
Number of Occupants, Ages: 5 persons (family members aged 32, 32, 5, and 2) plus 1 person (85) in an apartment unit
Space Requirements on Ground Floor, Upper Floor: Apartment approximately 50sqm (538 sqft), remainder about 150sqm (1615 sqft)
Office Use: Family use or home office? Office, since the occupants are teachers
Guest Stay Frequency per Year: Varies, but frequently family and friends from across Germany
Open Kitchen, Cooking Island: Open, preferably with a cooking island but not essential
Number of Dining Seats: 6-8
Fireplace: Not planned initially, possibly reconsidered due to KFW funding changes
Balcony, Roof Terrace: Potentially a small “roof terrace” above the apartment terrace would be nice, but not planned due to budget (great view)
Garage, Carport: There is an existing garage (built 1995) in an inconvenient location, which will remain for now
Additional Wishes / Special Features / Daily Routine, including reasons for decisions
The plot is heavily built up, so we have tried to identify spots with good views, which involved a lot of planning on my part. Good views are towards northeast and west
House Design
Who designed the plans:
Architect and do-it-yourself: Mainly my own design; the architect made changes, some of which we did not like (e.g., U-shaped staircase, arrangement of rooms difficult), so currently it is essentially a drawing based on my drafts with useful improvements from the architect
What do you particularly like? Why?
Staircase, integration of WC on the upper floor, loft door to the open space as a connection to the “stairwell.”
Entrance to the utility room to be placed under the stairs on the ground floor, shifting the wall of the apartment unit accordingly.
Children’s rooms are the same size, space-saving staircase to the attic (amazing view from there), use of attic as playroom and possibly guest accommodation.
Living room ceiling height increased to 2.70m (8 ft 10 in) planned on the upper floor.
What do you dislike? Why?
Entrance to the utility room still needs to be placed under the stairs on the ground floor, requiring adjustment to the apartment’s wall.
Windows generally need revision; in the living room facing west, possibly an “imitation corner window” (with support pillar) to maximize the view.
The kitchen window facing northeast should definitely be a seating window.
Price Estimate According to Architect/Planner:
Including groundwork, €540,000 (approximately $600,000), but originally planned with KFW 55 energy standard, which we missed submitting on time. Now we need to reconsider, as we actually wanted KFW 40 standard for the two residential units. 😡
Personal Price Limit for the House, Including Fixtures:
€540,000 would be ideal; preliminary estimates from contractors roughly match this.
Preferred Heating Technology: Planned heat pump with underfloor heating
If you have to give up on which details / expansions
-could you give up:[/I]
Attic later, glass door/loft door to living room later, no planned lift-and-slide doors or other fancy features
-cannot give up:
Wooden flooring, sufficient windows, wheelchair accessibility on the ground floor
Why is the design the way it is now?
Long iteration process on my part, partly inspired by Pinterest, but overall the external envelope is quite predetermined
What is the most important/fundamental question about the floor plan summarized in 130 characters?
Is there anything that doesn’t work? Have we missed anything? How about the window layout (still to be revised)? Does it make sense as the architect suggested? We even want to remove some windows (e.g., in the bedroom).
Plot Size: 388sqm (4179 sqft)
Slope: Yes, facing northwest
Site Coverage Ratio, Floor Area Ratio: The architect has not provided details yet; we are building according to Paragraph 34
Building Envelope, Building Line and Boundary: Maximum house width 8.80m (29 ft), former house length of existing building 14m (46 ft)
Number of Parking Spaces:
Number of Floors:
Roof Style: Gable roof
Orientation: According to the slope, ridge also facing northwest
Client Requirements
Architectural Style, Roof Type, Building Type: Gable roof
Basement, Number of Floors: 2 levels,[/I]5 plus attic space
Number of Occupants, Ages: 5 persons (family members aged 32, 32, 5, and 2) plus 1 person (85) in an apartment unit
Space Requirements on Ground Floor, Upper Floor: Apartment approximately 50sqm (538 sqft), remainder about 150sqm (1615 sqft)
Office Use: Family use or home office? Office, since the occupants are teachers
Guest Stay Frequency per Year: Varies, but frequently family and friends from across Germany
Open Kitchen, Cooking Island: Open, preferably with a cooking island but not essential
Number of Dining Seats: 6-8
Fireplace: Not planned initially, possibly reconsidered due to KFW funding changes
Balcony, Roof Terrace: Potentially a small “roof terrace” above the apartment terrace would be nice, but not planned due to budget (great view)
Garage, Carport: There is an existing garage (built 1995) in an inconvenient location, which will remain for now
Additional Wishes / Special Features / Daily Routine, including reasons for decisions
The plot is heavily built up, so we have tried to identify spots with good views, which involved a lot of planning on my part. Good views are towards northeast and west
House Design
Who designed the plans:
Architect and do-it-yourself: Mainly my own design; the architect made changes, some of which we did not like (e.g., U-shaped staircase, arrangement of rooms difficult), so currently it is essentially a drawing based on my drafts with useful improvements from the architect
What do you particularly like? Why?
Staircase, integration of WC on the upper floor, loft door to the open space as a connection to the “stairwell.”
Entrance to the utility room to be placed under the stairs on the ground floor, shifting the wall of the apartment unit accordingly.
Children’s rooms are the same size, space-saving staircase to the attic (amazing view from there), use of attic as playroom and possibly guest accommodation.
Living room ceiling height increased to 2.70m (8 ft 10 in) planned on the upper floor.
What do you dislike? Why?
Entrance to the utility room still needs to be placed under the stairs on the ground floor, requiring adjustment to the apartment’s wall.
Windows generally need revision; in the living room facing west, possibly an “imitation corner window” (with support pillar) to maximize the view.
The kitchen window facing northeast should definitely be a seating window.
Price Estimate According to Architect/Planner:
Including groundwork, €540,000 (approximately $600,000), but originally planned with KFW 55 energy standard, which we missed submitting on time. Now we need to reconsider, as we actually wanted KFW 40 standard for the two residential units. 😡
Personal Price Limit for the House, Including Fixtures:
€540,000 would be ideal; preliminary estimates from contractors roughly match this.
Preferred Heating Technology: Planned heat pump with underfloor heating
If you have to give up on which details / expansions
-could you give up:[/I]
Attic later, glass door/loft door to living room later, no planned lift-and-slide doors or other fancy features
-cannot give up:
Wooden flooring, sufficient windows, wheelchair accessibility on the ground floor
Why is the design the way it is now?
Long iteration process on my part, partly inspired by Pinterest, but overall the external envelope is quite predetermined
What is the most important/fundamental question about the floor plan summarized in 130 characters?
Is there anything that doesn’t work? Have we missed anything? How about the window layout (still to be revised)? Does it make sense as the architect suggested? We even want to remove some windows (e.g., in the bedroom).
M
moooooo322 Feb 2022 23:02borxx schrieb:
- Living area: Some time ago, we looked at a house where the kitchen, dining area, and living room were arranged in an L-shape about 3m (10 feet) wide, and I didn’t find the flow very appealing.
- Guest WC: I agree, very small and without natural light.
- Did I overlook the dressing room?
- The second staircase on the upper floor leads again to the attic — what is the intended use for this space later, or have you checked the available ceiling height there? According to the plan, the clearance at the start of the stairs is between 1.5 and 2m (5 to 6.5 feet) in rough construction height, which I consider hardly practical for everyday use.
Overall, especially with a limited budget, I would try to align the bathrooms and kitchen as much as possible to avoid bulky soffits and long plumbing runs.
For the kitchen dimensions, I would place tall cabinets on the left side of the plan (3.3m (11 feet)) by removing the window there and positioning it sideways (similar to how the cabinet row is currently arranged). In front of this, a 3 by 1.2m (10 by 4 feet) island, as I think was shown in the options, would provide more storage with practical walking paths.
In the original post, you mentioned not wanting a spiral staircase — what other shapes are you considering? Straight with a landing, perhaps? Hmm, there was another draft with a spiral staircase — should I show it again? Straight with a landing takes up a lot of space, so it’s rather not an option. Unfortunately, not everything can be perfectly resolved; with these exterior dimensions, compromises are definitely necessary. Basically, any staircase except the typical row house stair is acceptable.
You could initially leave out the glass doors and see if you manage with an open-plan living area.
By dressing room, do you mean the cloakroom? On the ground floor, by the side entrance.
The attic was planned that way by the architect; I thought it would be fine…
I put a lot of effort into stacking the bathrooms, but of course that’s undone if I swap the bathroom and utility room as shown in the most recent plans.
We definitely want to keep the window on the left side of the plan — it offers the best view.
askforafriend2 Feb 2022 23:27moooooo32 schrieb:
Where are you building? I guess southern Germany?Yes, you guessed correctly. But keep in mind the massive price increases that have happened just in the past few months. It has simply become crazy.
moooooo32 schrieb:
The design in this form is not completely ours; the initial draft (in red) was drawn by the architect (but based on my sketch). I just tried to trace it. No one is drawing in the office right now because of the quarantine emergency.The draftsman has cleaned up your design and tried to hide the biggest mistakes. Otherwise, he didn’t put much thought into it. He just takes your wishes—no matter how bad they are—and sells them to you first. Draftsmen don’t provide advice. moooooo32 schrieb:
Thanks for your comments; I appreciate the effort and will respond to each point individually.Same here. moooooo32 schrieb:
Stairs are from the architect. I accepted a bulkhead at head height; here it’s “only” two steps. That should be over 2 meters (6 feet 7 inches) of headroom, as far as I know. But previously, the kitchen line was planned there, so maybe I’m mistaken about the 2 meters (6 feet 7 inches)?For $550K, you want to see a step in the ceiling of a new build? The resale value drops immediately by $40K. Yes, the architect (if that’s what you want to call him) covered up the mess with the kitchen cabinets. Honestly, that’s quite outrageous. moooooo32 schrieb:
I didn’t pay close attention to such details or exact window positions; I was mainly concerned about approximate dimensions at first.Some details are crucial for function. Things like doors, traffic routes, minimum dimensions, stairs, pipes, and so on cannot be squeezed in at the end. That leads to shoddy results. moooooo32 schrieb:
What would be the alternative to the vestibule or storage area for possibly a walker? Standing directly in the living area is also awkward, right?The room is too small to be useful. Either leave it out or make it bigger. moooooo32 schrieb:
That’s why a (self-built) window seat should definitely go there,You mean now at the top left side in the kitchen? Could that be in a separate room—something like a reading or crafts room? moooooo32 schrieb:
But I don’t imagine the island to be that bad.With kitchens, it’s mainly about a functional work arrangement. There are specialists like Kerstin @kbt09 or, even better, a dedicated forum for that. I’m no kitchen expert, but even I see that the layout is terribly impractical. moooooo32 schrieb:
You could also rotate the table. It’s rather the extendable version at 2.4 meters (8 feet). But then the space in front of the door would be wasted. How do you determine it’s going to be uncomfortable? The window left of the table is not a patio door, so it stays closed. Therefore, I think you can sit comparatively close. Between the door and chairs, there’s 1.1–1.2 meters (3 feet 7 inches–3 feet 11 inches); isn’t that enough?This whole table-chair-door issue creates a big mess. First: which way do the doors open? With the doors open, how much space remains? For tables, chairs, etc., there are certain standard dimensions you shouldn’t go below. For example, a table is often 90 cm (35 inches) deep. With chairs for comfortable seating, you need about 3.5 meters (11 feet 6 inches) depth. Doors should not swing into that zone or cross walking paths. People also don’t like sitting with their backs directly against a wall. When standing up, you move the chair back... You see, others have already put thought into this. moooooo32 schrieb:
The door to the open-plan living area is actually supposed to be double doors.Yes, that always looks nice. But not with this staircase. Because then you’ll hit whoever is walking from the kitchen into the living room. Bam! moooooo32 schrieb:
Yes, the WC is tiny. We haven’t found a good solution yet.I have one. However, I redesigned everything—as usual. I’m still drawing, but the plan is clear in my head. moooooo32 schrieb:
The knee wall is planned at 1.25 meters (4 feet 1 inch), 2 m (6 feet 7 inches) line, see red plans 🙂 I also find the bedroom huge 🙁 Maybe my measurements are somehow off. Or the staircase is overall pushed too far up.What is the roof pitch?M
moooooo323 Feb 2022 00:01K a t j a schrieb:
The draftsman has redrawn your design neatly and tried to cover up the biggest mistakes. Otherwise, he didn’t put much thought into it. He just sells your wishes—no matter how poor they are. Draftsmen do not provide consulting.
Same here.
For $550K you want to see a step in the ceiling in a new build? The resale value will immediately drop by $40K. Yes, the architect (if that title even applies) tried to “camouflage” the blunder with kitchen cabinets. Honestly, that’s quite outrageous.
Some details are crucial for functionality. Things like doors, walking paths, minimum dimensions, stairs, wiring, and so on cannot be squeezed in as an afterthought. That leads to a mess.
The room is too tiny to be useful. Either leave it out or make it bigger.
Are you now referring to the upper left side of the kitchen? Could it be a separate room—something like a reading or hobby room?
When it comes to kitchens, the focus is mainly on a logical work layout. There are specialists for that, like Kerstin @kbt09, or even better, a dedicated kitchen forum. I’m no kitchen expert myself, but even I can see that this is terribly impractical.
The whole table-chair-door issue creates a big chaos. First: which way do the doors open? When open, how much space is left? There are standard dimensions for tables and chairs that should not be compromised. For example, a table is often 90cm (35 inches) deep, and with chairs comfortably used, you need about 3.50m (11.5 feet) of depth. Doors should not swing into that area, nor should walkways cross it. People also dislike sitting with their backs directly against a wall. When standing up, the chair is pushed back... You see, others have already thought this through.
Yes, that always looks nice. But not with this staircase. Because then you’ll bump into anyone coming from the kitchen to the living room. Pow!
I already have one. But I completely overhauled everything—as usual. I’m still drawing, but everything is finalized in my head.
What is the roof pitch currently? Current roof pitch is 45° (45 degrees), 50° (50 degrees) is possible, as it is with the neighbors.
Not a draftsman, architect without general contractor binding. The rest tomorrow.
Here is a (standard) suggestion:
I think sacrificing space for a permanent staircase to the attic would be a waste of money. I’ve drawn in the 1.80m (5 ft 11 in) head height line (2m [6 ft 7 in] would be even narrower) — I hope I didn’t miscalculate. Please correct me if I did. But this area really isn’t worth regularly going up to. No one does. A normal access hatch is enough for the kids. Then they can set up the train set up there, next to the Christmas decorations. Otherwise, in my opinion, it’s not worth it.
I think sacrificing space for a permanent staircase to the attic would be a waste of money. I’ve drawn in the 1.80m (5 ft 11 in) head height line (2m [6 ft 7 in] would be even narrower) — I hope I didn’t miscalculate. Please correct me if I did. But this area really isn’t worth regularly going up to. No one does. A normal access hatch is enough for the kids. Then they can set up the train set up there, next to the Christmas decorations. Otherwise, in my opinion, it’s not worth it.
Similar topics