ᐅ Floor Plan Single-Family Home 165 sqm First Draft – Architect Dissatisfied
Created on: 27 Oct 2024 14:06
K
Kirschsaftlady
Hello everyone,
since we are not completely satisfied with the first draft from our architect and find it difficult to translate our wishes into a design ourselves, or because some things might even be incompatible, we would appreciate suggestions and tips.
Development Plan / Restrictions
Plot size: 954 sqm (10,270 sq ft)
Slope: approximately 1 m (3.3 ft) downward from the street along the entire length
Floor-space index (FSI): 0.4
Building envelope, building line, and boundary: see architect’s plan
There is a development plan, but all exceptions we want have been approved without issues or have already been permitted for our street.
Client Requirements
Style, roof shape, building type: gable roof, single-family house, possibly with a bay window
Basement, floors: slab-on-grade, 2 full stories with a sufficiently high knee wall, small storage space under the roof
Number of occupants, age: currently 2 adults and one toddler, planning for an additional child
Space requirements on ground floor (GF) and upper floor (UF):
GF: combined utility and technical room, entrance area, cloakroom niche, guest bathroom with shower, office, open living-dining-kitchen area. Pantry, storage under the stairs
UF: 2 children’s rooms at least 15 sqm (160 sq ft) each, master bedroom with walk-in closet, family bathroom with walk-in shower and double sinks, hallway with daylight and preferably space for a chair or a small table for a sewing machine
Office: family use or home office? Home office nearly daily
Guests per year: hardly any
Open or closed layout: semi-open
Conservative or modern construction: modern
Open kitchen, cooking island: semi-open (visually screened) with attached island
Number of dining seats: 6
Fireplace: no
Music/speaker wall: no
Balcony, roof terrace: no
Garage, carport: either a double garage or a garage with carport
Additional wishes:
Stairs either straight or with a landing, not spiral
Living-dining-kitchen area should not be arranged in a single line without privacy screens, all areas with a view into the garden
Prefer an additional access from the garage/carport through the utility room
Master bedroom oriented top left on the plan, bed with a view out of a floor-to-ceiling window into the garden. Preferred access to the bedroom through the dressing room or the dressing room behind the wall behind the bed (headboard).
Prefer children’s rooms not adjoining the master bedroom wall-to-wall
I will link a plan of a kitchen we really liked in a show house
Prefer the stairs to be naturally lit
Living room at least as large as in the current plan
House Design
Designed by: architect
What do you particularly like? Why? The ground floor, except kitchen and dining area, especially the living room, is well separated and without direct view into the kitchen. The dining area feels somewhat cramped; the kitchen should be wider rather than longer, as currently the attached island looks lost.
What do you dislike? Why? Kitchen and dining area, walk-in closet cramped in a niche, bathroom too large, upper floor hallway without windows. Window areas in the master bedroom and also in the dining-kitchen area too large, cloakroom niche too small.
Price estimate according to architect/planner: none yet, a discussion about the design is still pending.
Personal budget limit for the house including fittings: excluding the plot, with all additional costs, survey, and soil report, we still have a budget of 600,000. It will be a prefabricated house, possibly painting and partial flooring done by ourselves, landscaping also mainly DIY and not immediately.
Preferred heating system: air-to-water heat pump with photovoltaic system
If you have to give up on certain details/extensions:
-can you do without: children’s room next to the master bedroom, storage and office could move upstairs if necessary, utility and technical rooms separated, second access not mandatory, pantry access directly from kitchen as well as from utility room not mandatory, bay window not essential as long as it doesn’t make the layout too open
-can’t you do without: stair shape, room layout, bedroom location, “semi-open” living-dining-kitchen area, cloakroom integrated into a niche
Why is the design the way it is?
There was an on-site meeting where brainstorming on paper followed. The current draft more or less resulted from this, but it was not yet final with dimensions and sizes, so for example, the problem with the kitchen and dining area was not visible. We communicated the negative points about the upper floor on site and actually expected a new alternative afterward.
I think all relevant information is included above; I’m happy to provide more if needed.
The dining table does not have to be directly in front of the kitchen; the focus is solely on the kitchen layout itself.
Thanks in advance for all your tips!
since we are not completely satisfied with the first draft from our architect and find it difficult to translate our wishes into a design ourselves, or because some things might even be incompatible, we would appreciate suggestions and tips.
Development Plan / Restrictions
Plot size: 954 sqm (10,270 sq ft)
Slope: approximately 1 m (3.3 ft) downward from the street along the entire length
Floor-space index (FSI): 0.4
Building envelope, building line, and boundary: see architect’s plan
There is a development plan, but all exceptions we want have been approved without issues or have already been permitted for our street.
Client Requirements
Style, roof shape, building type: gable roof, single-family house, possibly with a bay window
Basement, floors: slab-on-grade, 2 full stories with a sufficiently high knee wall, small storage space under the roof
Number of occupants, age: currently 2 adults and one toddler, planning for an additional child
Space requirements on ground floor (GF) and upper floor (UF):
GF: combined utility and technical room, entrance area, cloakroom niche, guest bathroom with shower, office, open living-dining-kitchen area. Pantry, storage under the stairs
UF: 2 children’s rooms at least 15 sqm (160 sq ft) each, master bedroom with walk-in closet, family bathroom with walk-in shower and double sinks, hallway with daylight and preferably space for a chair or a small table for a sewing machine
Office: family use or home office? Home office nearly daily
Guests per year: hardly any
Open or closed layout: semi-open
Conservative or modern construction: modern
Open kitchen, cooking island: semi-open (visually screened) with attached island
Number of dining seats: 6
Fireplace: no
Music/speaker wall: no
Balcony, roof terrace: no
Garage, carport: either a double garage or a garage with carport
Additional wishes:
Stairs either straight or with a landing, not spiral
Living-dining-kitchen area should not be arranged in a single line without privacy screens, all areas with a view into the garden
Prefer an additional access from the garage/carport through the utility room
Master bedroom oriented top left on the plan, bed with a view out of a floor-to-ceiling window into the garden. Preferred access to the bedroom through the dressing room or the dressing room behind the wall behind the bed (headboard).
Prefer children’s rooms not adjoining the master bedroom wall-to-wall
I will link a plan of a kitchen we really liked in a show house
Prefer the stairs to be naturally lit
Living room at least as large as in the current plan
House Design
Designed by: architect
What do you particularly like? Why? The ground floor, except kitchen and dining area, especially the living room, is well separated and without direct view into the kitchen. The dining area feels somewhat cramped; the kitchen should be wider rather than longer, as currently the attached island looks lost.
What do you dislike? Why? Kitchen and dining area, walk-in closet cramped in a niche, bathroom too large, upper floor hallway without windows. Window areas in the master bedroom and also in the dining-kitchen area too large, cloakroom niche too small.
Price estimate according to architect/planner: none yet, a discussion about the design is still pending.
Personal budget limit for the house including fittings: excluding the plot, with all additional costs, survey, and soil report, we still have a budget of 600,000. It will be a prefabricated house, possibly painting and partial flooring done by ourselves, landscaping also mainly DIY and not immediately.
Preferred heating system: air-to-water heat pump with photovoltaic system
If you have to give up on certain details/extensions:
-can you do without: children’s room next to the master bedroom, storage and office could move upstairs if necessary, utility and technical rooms separated, second access not mandatory, pantry access directly from kitchen as well as from utility room not mandatory, bay window not essential as long as it doesn’t make the layout too open
-can’t you do without: stair shape, room layout, bedroom location, “semi-open” living-dining-kitchen area, cloakroom integrated into a niche
Why is the design the way it is?
There was an on-site meeting where brainstorming on paper followed. The current draft more or less resulted from this, but it was not yet final with dimensions and sizes, so for example, the problem with the kitchen and dining area was not visible. We communicated the negative points about the upper floor on site and actually expected a new alternative afterward.
I think all relevant information is included above; I’m happy to provide more if needed.
The dining table does not have to be directly in front of the kitchen; the focus is solely on the kitchen layout itself.
Thanks in advance for all your tips!
H
hanghaus202331 Oct 2024 09:36Kirschsaftlady schrieb:
You really have to add quite a bit of fill. The plot doesn’t look nearly that sloped in reality.
We will definitely bring this up in the meeting next week. You will probably need to have the site surveyed anyway.
Contour lines rarely lie, except when the terrain has been reshaped during road construction. If the road is on a slope, there is often about 50 cm (20 inches) of extra fill added. The contour lines indicate at least 2 m (6.5 feet) on the plot and 1 m (3.3 feet) in the building area.
Try taking a photo of the neighboring plot where fill has already been added.
In general, a few photos help to visualize the situation better. We haven’t seen the plot ourselves.
H
hanghaus202331 Oct 2024 09:45Tip from a professional: Take your phone and measure the slope of the terrain. Simply place a straight board on the slope and then put your phone on top of it. This method is more accurate than the slope estimation given by the architect, which I would already question based on the contour lines.
K
Kirschsaftlady3 Nov 2024 13:30Unfortunately, I don’t have any photos, as we currently live a bit far from the property. But yes, this is definitely something we need to keep an eye on.
We have now done some drawing ourselves, as it just wouldn’t let us rest. We’re not completely satisfied with it yet, but at least it seems to be getting closer to our ideas. The living-dining-kitchen area is still a bit too small, and unfortunately, the wardrobe is no longer in a niche. We actually quite like the upper floor.
We would appreciate any comments. I will also continue to update on what hopefully comes out of the discussion with the architect.
We know the dimensions are not 100% accurate; at the top side near the children's rooms, we would reduce 30cm (12 inches) and add some space at the bottom.
We have now done some drawing ourselves, as it just wouldn’t let us rest. We’re not completely satisfied with it yet, but at least it seems to be getting closer to our ideas. The living-dining-kitchen area is still a bit too small, and unfortunately, the wardrobe is no longer in a niche. We actually quite like the upper floor.
We would appreciate any comments. I will also continue to update on what hopefully comes out of the discussion with the architect.
We know the dimensions are not 100% accurate; at the top side near the children's rooms, we would reduce 30cm (12 inches) and add some space at the bottom.
M
MachsSelbst3 Nov 2024 15:00The utility room of 10m² (108 sq ft) shrinks back to about 6 to 7 usable m² (65 to 75 sq ft) due to the side entrance. For the utility room, I would also prefer a “long corridor” shape rather than a square. The fuse box, inverter, battery storage, main electrical panel, water filter—all of these will be mounted on the wall. The heating system is also installed on the wall, drainage pipes run along the wall, and so on. In the end, there is about 5m² (54 sq ft) of free floor space in the middle that no one can really use, except for walking through.
I also wouldn’t use the valuable 5m² (54 sq ft) upstairs for a utility room, where in the end only the washing machine is located. Also, in my opinion, the bathroom wastes too much space relative to the amount of time spent there.
This way, you could fit a home office upstairs and still have enough space downstairs for the dining area, living room, and kitchen that you would expect in a 165m² (1776 sq ft) house. What’s the point of this “cloning”? Usually, people know each other well enough when living together 24/7.
And as I already said, once the kids reach puberty, bathroom and toilet use is usually limited to one person at a time anyway.
I also wouldn’t use the valuable 5m² (54 sq ft) upstairs for a utility room, where in the end only the washing machine is located. Also, in my opinion, the bathroom wastes too much space relative to the amount of time spent there.
This way, you could fit a home office upstairs and still have enough space downstairs for the dining area, living room, and kitchen that you would expect in a 165m² (1776 sq ft) house. What’s the point of this “cloning”? Usually, people know each other well enough when living together 24/7.
And as I already said, once the kids reach puberty, bathroom and toilet use is usually limited to one person at a time anyway.
Kirschsaftlady schrieb:
We finally decided to do some drawing ourselves, it just wouldn’t let us rest.
We’re not completely satisfied yet, but at least it seems to be closer to what we want. The living-dining-kitchen area is still a bit too small, and unfortunately the cloakroom is no longer in a niche. We actually like the upper floor quite a bit. [...] We know the dimensions aren’t 100% right; we would reduce 30cm (12 inches) at the top near the children’s rooms and add some space at the bottom. Creating an alternative design is a good idea. However, I wouldn’t try to develop it further, but rather use it for a short series of very specific purposes:
A. To show the differences between the architect’s design and your needs/wishes;
B. As a benchmark or example for finding suitable proven building proposals or catalog houses;
C. For an orientation inquiry (a “setting the course”), I can gladly prepare one for you based on the architect’s design, your alternative, and a comparison of the two.
Your alternative design is half a meter (about 20 inches) longer than the architect’s, and since you “calculated” with symbolic paper walls, at least another half meter (20 inches) in total length will need to be corrected (removed). I also tend to assume you started with the ground floor.
Kirschsaftlady schrieb:
I will keep reporting on what comes out of the hopefully upcoming conversation with the architect. Why should such a conversation only “hopefully” take place? You are clients! (A client pays and commissions, which is a fundamental difference from someone requesting a favor). Be clear about what you want and communicate it:
EITHER a revision, meaning the architect should maintain their fee claim but also provide an acceptable deliverable in return
OR agree to acknowledge the failed attempt, part ways amicably, and negotiate a fair compensation for the work done (which, in my opinion, was poor). After all, you will now have to invest money in another planning process.
The option to “hope and see what happens” only exists if you’re willing to switch from client to victim!
In my assessment, either the architect is aware they tried to secure a quick small fee for minimal effort and will be grateful for a dignified way out,
or they lack insight into their poor performance, making them the worst candidate for a second chance.
I see you most likely continuing with an independent building consultant (which can be another architect neutral regarding construction methods, although probably also compensated according to HOAI), or myself. I have already mentioned three colleagues (Beuler, Zink, and Freyermuth—although all unfortunately focused on prefab homes) several times (see forum search), and that list is far from exhaustive.
https://www.instagram.com/11antgmxde/
https://www.linkedin.com/company/bauen-jetzt/
I agree that the upper floor wastes expensive and impractical space, while the lower floor feels extremely cramped and uncomfortable.
The issue with the bathroom being too large has been pointed out several times, yet for some reason it hasn’t been reduced significantly. You can have a beautiful bathroom in just 9sqm (approximately 97 sq ft) without compromising on comfort. Good planning matters more than size. When you open the door, you immediately feel like you’re hitting the shower wall, and then you have to maneuver around the door to reach the sink. You can forget about the WC alcove – what’s the point of all that empty space between the toilet and the bathtub?
Also, the hallway on the upper floor is unnecessarily spacious at over 13sqm (approximately 140 sq ft).
That sounds reasonable. And please be sure to draw your own plans with accurate, real dimensions – otherwise, it won’t work (walls, interior walls, furniture, stairs)!
The issue with the bathroom being too large has been pointed out several times, yet for some reason it hasn’t been reduced significantly. You can have a beautiful bathroom in just 9sqm (approximately 97 sq ft) without compromising on comfort. Good planning matters more than size. When you open the door, you immediately feel like you’re hitting the shower wall, and then you have to maneuver around the door to reach the sink. You can forget about the WC alcove – what’s the point of all that empty space between the toilet and the bathtub?
Also, the hallway on the upper floor is unnecessarily spacious at over 13sqm (approximately 140 sq ft).
MachsSelbst schrieb:
That way you could fit the office upstairs and have enough space downstairs for dining, living, and kitchen areas appropriate for a 165sqm (approximately 1,776 sq ft) house.
That sounds reasonable. And please be sure to draw your own plans with accurate, real dimensions – otherwise, it won’t work (walls, interior walls, furniture, stairs)!
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