Hello everyone,
I have been reading here for a while, and now it’s time for us to start planning the floor plan. We had our first appointment with the architect this week and have already shared our ideas with him as preparation. We received a first draft, which we will discuss during our meeting. Additionally, we created some rough sketches ourselves (without considering structural issues, windows, the staircase is drawn way too small, etc. – really just very basic to clarify our ideas, I’m attaching those as well).
Development plan / restrictions
Plot size: 635 sqm (6,840 sq ft)
House size: 135 sqm (1,450 sq ft)
Number of floors: 1.5
Roof type: Gable roof
Maximum heights / limits: Knee wall 1.20 m (4 ft)
(We would have preferred a bungalow or a townhouse, but unfortunately, there are no plots available here. We are happy to have found one at all, even if that means we have to accept 1.5 floors and a knee wall.)
Client requirements
Basement, floors: no basement
Number of occupants, age: 2 persons, 39 years old (children are 90% unlikely to be planned)
Office: Home office about once a week – although I usually work from the living room with my laptop
Guest stays: maybe 2 to 3 times a year, so far managed without a guest room in the apartment
Architecture: open plan
Construction style: modern
Kitchen: an island kitchen probably won’t fit, but it should be an open kitchen, possibly with a breakfast bar
Dining seats: 4 to 6 – for occasional visitors – but that could also work by putting in a dining table as needed and otherwise using a kitchen breakfast bar daily
Fireplace: rather no, due to cost and space reasons
Balcony, roof terrace: terrace
Garage, carport: carport
Desired ground floor layout:
Includes utility room, guest WC, hallway, living area (consisting of living room, kitchen, dining area/other)
Entrance and ancillary rooms:
- small hallway with space for a coat rack
- utility room about 8 sqm (86 sq ft), space for technical equipment, washing machine, dog food & co.
- guest WC max. 3 sqm (32 sq ft); no guest shower needed
Living area:
- quick access from the entrance to the living area, ideally directly to the kitchen
- living/kitchen/dining area as large as possible (ideally approx. 50 sqm (540 sq ft)), minimizing space wasted by other areas/rooms on the ground floor
- kitchen possibly with island/breakfast bar if space allows
- book corner with window seat if space allows (for info: I have about 1,000 books and a piano – these need to be accommodated somewhere)
- space-saving staircase, preferably open/integrated in the living area to save hallway space
Desired upper floor layout:
Includes bathroom, bedroom, dressing room, hobby room, another room (possibly office, guest room)
Bathroom:
- bathroom with walk-in shower + bathtub (freestanding = nice to have)
- possible wall separation for the toilet (if it fits)
Sleeping area and dressing room:
- bedroom with walk-in closet/dressing room, if feasible given house size
- access from bedroom to dressing room and bathroom
Additional rooms:
- hobby room with space for desk, crafting corner, small seating area
- another room as office/sports/guest room or possibly a child’s room after all – alternatively, a larger hallway/gallery with seating area and light well to the floor below
House design
Designed by: planner/architect from a design-build company
What don’t we like? Why?
Cost estimate according to architect/planner: $240,000 – that is also the financial plan (excluding kitchen or additional furniture, plot and landscaping – total budget is about $400,000)
Preferred heating technology: air-source heat pump
If you had to give up something, which features/finishes could you do without? very reluctantly the dressing/walk-in closet
What is the most important fundamental question about the floor plan, summarized in 130 characters?
How should we best proceed with the draft? Are there ideas that could help us align better with our wishes for the discussion? Which ideas should we discard?
A few more remarks: Reading other posts here sometimes makes me feel guilty because we are “only” building 135 sqm and everything seems so “small.” Still, I want to get the best possible value for my money. Financially, this size is the most reasonable for now.
(PS: And in case the question arises: Why are children only 90% excluded? There are many reasons – for example, difficulties conceiving, but not completely giving up hope.)
Thank you in advance for your opinions.
I have been reading here for a while, and now it’s time for us to start planning the floor plan. We had our first appointment with the architect this week and have already shared our ideas with him as preparation. We received a first draft, which we will discuss during our meeting. Additionally, we created some rough sketches ourselves (without considering structural issues, windows, the staircase is drawn way too small, etc. – really just very basic to clarify our ideas, I’m attaching those as well).
Development plan / restrictions
Plot size: 635 sqm (6,840 sq ft)
House size: 135 sqm (1,450 sq ft)
Number of floors: 1.5
Roof type: Gable roof
Maximum heights / limits: Knee wall 1.20 m (4 ft)
(We would have preferred a bungalow or a townhouse, but unfortunately, there are no plots available here. We are happy to have found one at all, even if that means we have to accept 1.5 floors and a knee wall.)
Client requirements
Basement, floors: no basement
Number of occupants, age: 2 persons, 39 years old (children are 90% unlikely to be planned)
Office: Home office about once a week – although I usually work from the living room with my laptop
Guest stays: maybe 2 to 3 times a year, so far managed without a guest room in the apartment
Architecture: open plan
Construction style: modern
Kitchen: an island kitchen probably won’t fit, but it should be an open kitchen, possibly with a breakfast bar
Dining seats: 4 to 6 – for occasional visitors – but that could also work by putting in a dining table as needed and otherwise using a kitchen breakfast bar daily
Fireplace: rather no, due to cost and space reasons
Balcony, roof terrace: terrace
Garage, carport: carport
Desired ground floor layout:
Includes utility room, guest WC, hallway, living area (consisting of living room, kitchen, dining area/other)
Entrance and ancillary rooms:
- small hallway with space for a coat rack
- utility room about 8 sqm (86 sq ft), space for technical equipment, washing machine, dog food & co.
- guest WC max. 3 sqm (32 sq ft); no guest shower needed
Living area:
- quick access from the entrance to the living area, ideally directly to the kitchen
- living/kitchen/dining area as large as possible (ideally approx. 50 sqm (540 sq ft)), minimizing space wasted by other areas/rooms on the ground floor
- kitchen possibly with island/breakfast bar if space allows
- book corner with window seat if space allows (for info: I have about 1,000 books and a piano – these need to be accommodated somewhere)
- space-saving staircase, preferably open/integrated in the living area to save hallway space
Desired upper floor layout:
Includes bathroom, bedroom, dressing room, hobby room, another room (possibly office, guest room)
Bathroom:
- bathroom with walk-in shower + bathtub (freestanding = nice to have)
- possible wall separation for the toilet (if it fits)
Sleeping area and dressing room:
- bedroom with walk-in closet/dressing room, if feasible given house size
- access from bedroom to dressing room and bathroom
Additional rooms:
- hobby room with space for desk, crafting corner, small seating area
- another room as office/sports/guest room or possibly a child’s room after all – alternatively, a larger hallway/gallery with seating area and light well to the floor below
House design
Designed by: planner/architect from a design-build company
What don’t we like? Why?
- Narrow galley kitchen. I already have this in my apartment and don’t want it anymore. Is it really not possible to do it differently? Structural or other reasons?
- Staircase located in the dirty area. Shoes, dirt, etc. I don’t want to walk through that every time I go upstairs.
- Dressing room under a sloped ceiling. Not much space left for wardrobes...
- Office only 7 sqm (75 sq ft). Does that make sense? If, against expectations, a child arrives, this would be the hobby room, which would then be much too small.
- Bathrooms. Does the layout make sense? I always thought they should be arranged above/below each other.
- Technical equipment. Could it also be located in the attic?
Cost estimate according to architect/planner: $240,000 – that is also the financial plan (excluding kitchen or additional furniture, plot and landscaping – total budget is about $400,000)
Preferred heating technology: air-source heat pump
If you had to give up something, which features/finishes could you do without? very reluctantly the dressing/walk-in closet
What is the most important fundamental question about the floor plan, summarized in 130 characters?
How should we best proceed with the draft? Are there ideas that could help us align better with our wishes for the discussion? Which ideas should we discard?
A few more remarks: Reading other posts here sometimes makes me feel guilty because we are “only” building 135 sqm and everything seems so “small.” Still, I want to get the best possible value for my money. Financially, this size is the most reasonable for now.
(PS: And in case the question arises: Why are children only 90% excluded? There are many reasons – for example, difficulties conceiving, but not completely giving up hope.)
Thank you in advance for your opinions.
Please, no drama, ladies!
Let’s settle the question of whether we would have signed such a construction contract. And let’s accept the given conditions, which are:
1) One-and-a-half-story house with knee walls between 0 and 120 cm (0 and 47 inches), and a pitched roof with a slope of 35 to 55°;
2) Financing planned for 135 square meters (1,453 square feet).
Square meters can be calculated in different ways, which is why the contractor wants the contract to specify exactly what method is used. The standards according to DIN and the residential floor area ordinance differ—not only in the actual calculation, but also in the definitions and accounting of living areas, usable areas, and circulation spaces.
In this case, the contractor wants to be paid equally for every constructed room, whether it is the living room or the boiler room, and does not want any deduction for plastered surfaces. I do not share the concern that he intends to fully count partial areas between 120 and 200 cm (47 and 79 inches) in height as well.
I consider a knee wall in the range of 100 to 120 cm (39 to 47 inches) ideal: this way, you can completely forget about the problem of the attic knee wall. One of my mantras is that a knee wall only makes sense if it fully replaces the attic knee wall—and that could be the case here. A knee wall of 0 and then an attic knee wall with sloping walls used as storage is, in my opinion, not ideal, because these sloping walls and energy-saving regulations are not a perfect match. The alternative of a larger ground floor with a zero knee wall would not be completely off the table, but I would pursue it with little enthusiasm.
I assume the wall thickness as follows: 15 cm (6 inches) of expanded clay aggregate block, 14 cm (6 inches) of exterior insulation and finish system (EIFS), 2 cm (0.8 inches) of plaster on the exterior wall; interior walls likely 15 cm (6 inches) also of expanded clay aggregate blocks; interior partition walls of 12 cm (5 inches) possibly drywall.
Even according to DIN, the low-ceiling areas are counted with a reduction and the attic knee spaces are not counted at all.
https://www.instagram.com/11antgmxde/
https://www.linkedin.com/company/bauen-jetzt/
Let’s settle the question of whether we would have signed such a construction contract. And let’s accept the given conditions, which are:
1) One-and-a-half-story house with knee walls between 0 and 120 cm (0 and 47 inches), and a pitched roof with a slope of 35 to 55°;
2) Financing planned for 135 square meters (1,453 square feet).
Square meters can be calculated in different ways, which is why the contractor wants the contract to specify exactly what method is used. The standards according to DIN and the residential floor area ordinance differ—not only in the actual calculation, but also in the definitions and accounting of living areas, usable areas, and circulation spaces.
In this case, the contractor wants to be paid equally for every constructed room, whether it is the living room or the boiler room, and does not want any deduction for plastered surfaces. I do not share the concern that he intends to fully count partial areas between 120 and 200 cm (47 and 79 inches) in height as well.
I consider a knee wall in the range of 100 to 120 cm (39 to 47 inches) ideal: this way, you can completely forget about the problem of the attic knee wall. One of my mantras is that a knee wall only makes sense if it fully replaces the attic knee wall—and that could be the case here. A knee wall of 0 and then an attic knee wall with sloping walls used as storage is, in my opinion, not ideal, because these sloping walls and energy-saving regulations are not a perfect match. The alternative of a larger ground floor with a zero knee wall would not be completely off the table, but I would pursue it with little enthusiasm.
I assume the wall thickness as follows: 15 cm (6 inches) of expanded clay aggregate block, 14 cm (6 inches) of exterior insulation and finish system (EIFS), 2 cm (0.8 inches) of plaster on the exterior wall; interior walls likely 15 cm (6 inches) also of expanded clay aggregate blocks; interior partition walls of 12 cm (5 inches) possibly drywall.
Reluctance schrieb:
And with a one-and-a-half-story building, the usable area is unfortunately just as large as with a townhouse, or am I missing something?
Even according to DIN, the low-ceiling areas are counted with a reduction and the attic knee spaces are not counted at all.
https://www.instagram.com/11antgmxde/
https://www.linkedin.com/company/bauen-jetzt/
R
Reluctance24 Feb 2019 20:22Zaba12 schrieb:
That was exactly my idea. Just tell him it’s going to be a bungalow. I’m curious to see his reaction.I’ll just call the local municipality myself and ask about it. Let’s see what they say.
11ant schrieb:
I don’t share the concern that he wants to fully include the partial areas between 120 and 200 cm (47 and 79 inches) height. If he is referring to 135 sqm (1453 sq ft)? I can already see them
R
Reluctance24 Feb 2019 20:3211ant schrieb:
Please, no drama, ladies!
Let’s just settle the question of whether we would have signed such a construction contract. And accept the basic conditions as given, which are:
1) "One-and-a-half-story" with a knee wall between 0 and 120 cm (0 and 47 inches) and a pitched roof sloping between 35° and 55°;
2) Financing requested for 135 square meters (1,453 square feet) that is not to be overturned.
Square meters can be calculated in different ways, so the builder wants the contract to clearly define what method is meant. The standards of DIN and the Residential Area Ordinance differ—not only in the calculation itself but also in the designation and inclusion of living areas, utility areas, and circulation areas.
In this case, the builder wants to be paid equally for every built room, whether it is a living room or a boiler room, and no deduction for plaster surface. I do not share the concern that he also wants to fully include partial areas between 120 and 200 cm (47 and 79 inches) in height.
I find a knee wall between 100 and 120 cm (39 and 47 inches) ideal: then you can completely forget about the issue of the short wall. One of my mantras is that a knee wall only makes sense if it fully replaces the short wall—and that could be the case here. A knee wall of 0 with a short wall and sloped roof storage space as a storage room is, in my opinion, not great, because short walls and energy-saving regulations are not a dream team. The alternative of a larger ground floor and zero knee wall should therefore not be completely dismissed but pursued with little enthusiasm.
I interpret the wall thickness as follows: 15 cm (6 inches) expanded clay aggregate block, 14 cm (6 inches) external thermal insulation composite system (ETICS), 2 cm (0.8 inches) plaster on the external wall; interior walls probably 15 cm (6 inches) expanded clay aggregate block as well; interior walls 12 cm (5 inches) might be drywall.
Also, according to DIN, low ceiling areas were discounted and unused sloped roof areas not counted at all.Where have you been all day? Wonderful summary, thank you And: The wall thickness is indeed built exactly as you described.
Unfortunately, I agree with kbt09: the builder also fully includes the partial areas. But I’m still trying to negotiate something. Let’s see… So DIN 277 doesn’t help here, correct?
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